Johnmj6363
Member
I must be missing something here. I posted a picture of what the underside of my cap looks like and I see nothing wrong.
1965 Plymouth Satellite - Will not stay running
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I must be missing something here. I posted a picture of what the underside of my cap looks like and I see nothing wrong.
Johnmj6363
Member
Can anyone else confirm this is safe to try?
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Sorry,,,,missed that
Maxrat
Well-Known Member
Adjusting the mixture screw is easy (not the idle screw). Use a vacuum gauge or a tachometer. Either way, adjust the screw until you reach maximum rpm (using tach.) or maximum vacuum (using vacuum gauge). I usually turn the screw back down a hair once maximum is reached. Note: I'm not tacking about the idle screw.
Johnmj6363
Member
I would I go about taking measurements and adjusting if I can't get it to run?
miller
Well-Known Member
Mental note...'new' carb. Is it really a new one, or rebuilt???
Fact...an out-of-the-box carb, new or otherwise, ALWAYS must be adjusted, for the engine it's going on! That means mixture, choke setting, and yes, idle speed.
Assuming the carb float adjustment is okay. Mixture screw(s)...carefully turn each one in, counting each half turn...until the screw 'lightly' seats. Tapered ends, that can easily damage the mixture ports they go into, if the screws are turned in too tight.
Count, and write down, exactly the number of turns, to 1/8ths turns.
With that, you have a starting point, if things go bad.
You would need that vacuum port 'tube', that fell off in your lap, to read vacuum. Yeah, their pressed/hammered in, so maybe try expanding the one end, to get a tight enough fit.
Steady vacuum reading, easy enough to adjust mixture, getting it to the high reading.
Need to keep idle speed in reason. Mixture adjustment affects idle speed, so better mixture setting can raise idle speed.
If idle speed gets too high, adjust down...then, back to the mixture screws, and re-do.
We havin' fun, yet?
Still say poor spark. A condenser can be poor, too. It will allow points to burn. Why I said to look at 'em.
Fact...an out-of-the-box carb, new or otherwise, ALWAYS must be adjusted, for the engine it's going on! That means mixture, choke setting, and yes, idle speed.
Assuming the carb float adjustment is okay. Mixture screw(s)...carefully turn each one in, counting each half turn...until the screw 'lightly' seats. Tapered ends, that can easily damage the mixture ports they go into, if the screws are turned in too tight.
Count, and write down, exactly the number of turns, to 1/8ths turns.
With that, you have a starting point, if things go bad.
You would need that vacuum port 'tube', that fell off in your lap, to read vacuum. Yeah, their pressed/hammered in, so maybe try expanding the one end, to get a tight enough fit.
Steady vacuum reading, easy enough to adjust mixture, getting it to the high reading.
Need to keep idle speed in reason. Mixture adjustment affects idle speed, so better mixture setting can raise idle speed.
If idle speed gets too high, adjust down...then, back to the mixture screws, and re-do.
We havin' fun, yet?
Still say poor spark. A condenser can be poor, too. It will allow points to burn. Why I said to look at 'em.
miller
Well-Known Member
Uh-oh. Real dumb question...new plug wires...what kind??
Resistor (carbon/fiber) or wire core?
Points type ignition use wire core.
Resistor (carbon/fiber) or wire core?
Points type ignition use wire core.
Johnmj6363
Member
What a night, I'm optimistic I've got this figured out, but ultimately not 100% sure.
My 1st goal tonight, get a video of the spark to show you guys what I'm seeing as weak:
If my video uploaded correctly you'll see I've got NO SPARK now. So we've gone from weak spark to no spark, great.
Checked voltage and resistance at coil, resistor, blah blah blah all good.
I decided to get a few shots of the points to get ya'lls opinion. Below is a picture of the points spread with a screwdriver showing they're in good condition, and a pic of them open with the spin of the distributor showing what looks to me to be good clearance (I don't have a feeler gauge or the spec to be sure).
While checking out the points I notice the ground wire coming off the distributor condenser (or capacitor depending on what you call it) is wet. 'Odd' I thought to myself. I rubbed it with my glove and got a fair about of liquid on it (see pic).
I pulled the condenser/capacitor and shot the below video.
If the video uploaded correctly, you'll see we have a leak! I'm hoping to God, Allah, and the Almighty Mopar Maters this is the issue. I'm picking one up in the morning and I'll report back.
Why I'm not 100% confident this is the issue: I found this article on how to bench test a capacitor.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig129.htm
It passes the resistance test. I don't have a capacitor loading tool and the tool is more expensive than a new capacitor. So it's trial by fire time!
Anyone on here want to make me feel better and tell me they've had an issue with a capacitor / condenser on a year old distributor before?
My 1st goal tonight, get a video of the spark to show you guys what I'm seeing as weak:
If my video uploaded correctly you'll see I've got NO SPARK now. So we've gone from weak spark to no spark, great.
Checked voltage and resistance at coil, resistor, blah blah blah all good.
I decided to get a few shots of the points to get ya'lls opinion. Below is a picture of the points spread with a screwdriver showing they're in good condition, and a pic of them open with the spin of the distributor showing what looks to me to be good clearance (I don't have a feeler gauge or the spec to be sure).
While checking out the points I notice the ground wire coming off the distributor condenser (or capacitor depending on what you call it) is wet. 'Odd' I thought to myself. I rubbed it with my glove and got a fair about of liquid on it (see pic).
I pulled the condenser/capacitor and shot the below video.
If the video uploaded correctly, you'll see we have a leak! I'm hoping to God, Allah, and the Almighty Mopar Maters this is the issue. I'm picking one up in the morning and I'll report back.
Why I'm not 100% confident this is the issue: I found this article on how to bench test a capacitor.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig129.htm
It passes the resistance test. I don't have a capacitor loading tool and the tool is more expensive than a new capacitor. So it's trial by fire time!
Anyone on here want to make me feel better and tell me they've had an issue with a capacitor / condenser on a year old distributor before?
I'm constantly disappointed with the quality of just about anything produced these days.
Likely the problem it would run on brake cleaner since it was more volatile.
Likely the problem it would run on brake cleaner since it was more volatile.
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Maxrat
Well-Known Member
Point gap looks a little tight to me. The purpose of the point gap is to allow the condenser which is a capacitor to store energy for the next discharge. If your gap is too small it doesn't allow the capacitor to receive a full charge and you'll get a weak spark. Buy some feeler gauges (cheap) and set the points properly.
Point Gap = .017 inch
Spark Plug type = N14Y
Spark Plug gap = .035
Idle Speed = 600 rpm (with everything on -- lights, A/C, wipers, etc...)
Ignition Timing = 10 degrees before top dead center
Point Gap = .017 inch
Spark Plug type = N14Y
Spark Plug gap = .035
Idle Speed = 600 rpm (with everything on -- lights, A/C, wipers, etc...)
Ignition Timing = 10 degrees before top dead center
miller
Well-Known Member
How about within one week!! (Means crap parts) Feel any better?
Too bad us dumb Americans can't make simple parts these days...resort to foreign countries.
Tossing in, the points contacts show signs of burning. That comes from the condenser, weak, NFG, so on.
Before you try to set the points gap, clean 'em up. With the points closed, use a small piece of 600 grit paper, folded in half. Sandpaper between the contacts, and work until both are smooth, and clean.
Couldn't get the videos to work, again. You know when testing a spark plug, the metal base needs to be held to ground, right?
Positively get feeler gauges! A must have. What about those plug wires?
You could easily have more than one problem, causing what's going on. This stuff ain't hard, but needs to be set right.
You ARE doing a fair job, on the trouble-shooting. Just have to find the answers.
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Johnmj6363
Member
Thanks for the specs, I'll definitely take the time to set the points to the correct gap and check everything else while I have it.
Thanks for the advice, I'll clean the points and intend on checking and adjusting their gap as well.
How would I tell if I have the correct wires. I checked resistance and it seemed like they were within normal tolerance.
Johnmj6363
Member
SHE'S ALIVE!!
Thank you all for your help! It was indeed the condenser / capacitor on the new distributor. $8.99 from NAPA (went for their expensive one) and I'm good to go. I did clean the points and gaped them correctly just for good measure.
When I turned the key after install it was like time stood still. It started on the 1st rotation of the engine and I may have cried.
Again, really, thank you all. I hope this thread helps someone others down the road.
Next steps:
Oil pressure light goes on and off, going to start with a sensor
Dash illumination lights do not work (no idea where to start) The owner claims they all worked one day and then didn't the next.
Heater core (busted and disconnected for years)
I'm sure you'll be hearing from me soon
Thank you all for your help! It was indeed the condenser / capacitor on the new distributor. $8.99 from NAPA (went for their expensive one) and I'm good to go. I did clean the points and gaped them correctly just for good measure.
When I turned the key after install it was like time stood still. It started on the 1st rotation of the engine and I may have cried.
Again, really, thank you all. I hope this thread helps someone others down the road.
Next steps:
Oil pressure light goes on and off, going to start with a sensor
Dash illumination lights do not work (no idea where to start) The owner claims they all worked one day and then didn't the next.
Heater core (busted and disconnected for years)
I'm sure you'll be hearing from me soon
Twist the pull on the light switch they may turn down.
Maxrat
Well-Known Member
Great troubleshooting tips -- I can tell you've been around this block a few times. Back in the day (70's), I was really good at tuning
miller
Well-Known Member
Look for any writing on the wires. Carbon/fiber (resistor) wires were made, to use with higher output electronic ignitions. If nothing else, you can pull one end of the coil wire, and look at the end. Should be able to see the core type, going against the contact terminal.
I'll add though, if it ain't broke...don't fix it!
Dash lights...check the fuse, in the fuse box.
Oil pressure light...check for a loose wire contact.
Good show!
miller
Well-Known Member
btw...it's a real good idea, to drive that beast down to the parts house, and get a 'spare' condenser. Keep it in the glovebox.
In my life time, only had to change one, on the side of the road. Helps to have one.
In my life time, only had to change one, on the side of the road. Helps to have one.
Maxrat
Well-Known Member
He fixed it. It was a leaking condenser.
musekmkr
Well-Known Member
I know this post is old but I will say I am definitely going to to bookmark this for reference. You did an awesome job checking EVERYTHING. I have a similar issue and I too feel like I may have some weak spark. I did some initial checks as you have and didn't notice anything crazy out of whack. I ended up replacing most of the ignition just because I have no idea how old the components were and I really didn't mind having buying new stuff. I used either blue streak or NOS parts. I still feel like the spark looks a little weak and I too have trouble initially starting the car without giving it a shot of starting fluid. Once it clears its throat and warms up it actually revs pretty clean. I quickly installed a new condenser but really need to set the gap correctly with a fueler gauge. Hopefully that's my problem. Again good stuff and thanks for all the detail.
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