1973 440 head question.

[Bad B-rad]

I pulled the 1973 440 and trans from my winnebago, and got it on an engine stand.
I started to check #'s just to take inventory of what I have.
The 727 came back as a 1973 440 HD truck trans.(has the long tail shaft, and takes regular drive shaft)
The 440 ID pad reads: J440 T (then the maltese cross)
3 2
The 440 was cast on 2-27-73.
The intake manifold is the original 1973 unit.
It has the truck water pump, with the lower coolant outlet on the passenger side vs the car' s driver side location.
So far, no surprises.
Just for fun, I pull the driver side valve cover, to see what heads are on it, I am expecting 346's or 902's, MAYBE 452's.
It is super clean inside,but I find a number I have never come across before,
I find number 3751213.
I write down the number, and pull the passenger side valve cover, and BAM, it has #3462346.
OK I have had 346's, before.

So checking the info I have a #3751213, is a 400/440 head used on 1973 Motor home engines. (Ok that is true)
Now I have seen the motor home or industrial heads that are feed coolant directly from the water pump, that is NOT how mine is, my water pump is just like a car/ truck would have had.
In the past when people talk about big block motor home heads, I thought they were the heads that had the water pump bolt to them.

So my question is:
Is it common for motor home engines to have the driver side head be the 3751213, and the passenger head be a different number?
AND:
Anyone know if there is a valid reason for the different head casting #'s, or if it may just be a fluke at the factory?
Perhaps the engine had head work done in its history and was replaced with the 346???



.

 

[pnora]

You have the 440-1 it is the lighter duty. A 440-3 would be the heavy duty industrial version with a completely different design water pump housing and the coolant crossover.
As far as the heads being different numbers I would suspect that the motor has been apart. Casting dates may tell you more.

 

[Bad B-rad]

Thanks, for the info, my question was geared more toward the engine having two different casting# heads on it(213 and 346).
In my life I have only owned a hand full of big blocks,(two 383's/three 400's and five 440's) and they have all, except this 440, had cylinder heads that matched each other casting# wise.
So that was what I was wondering about, sorry for any confusion.



I just saw your edit, after I posted, LOL sorry for re-pete of question.

 

[pnora]

Thanks, for the info, my question was geared more toward the engine having two different casting# heads on it(213 and 346).
In my life I have only had a hand full of big blocks,(two 383's/three 400's and five 440's) and they have all, except this 440, had cylinder heads that matched each other casting# wise.
So that was what I was wondering about, sorry for any confusion.

I have had and worked on a lot of engines. Being in a dealership all my life and seeing a lot is why I believe it has been apart. Casting dates may shed some light. As far as I know the heads are similar but they may have some variants in cooling holes. Sometimes re builders may substitute heads the will interchange or someone just took it on their own to replace one with a different number. What chassis was this from? Van front B series or flat front M series?

 

[Bad B-rad]

It is from the M-series,
The engine looks as if the valley tray has never been off, I say this due to the paint on the heads of the bolts are not cracked, or disturbed in any way(on valley tray hold downs), and the "346" head has a white paint dab at the rear that goes down the head to the block(like an inspection mark), but if this work was done 25-30 years ago, it would also have that vintage look.
The passenger valve cover also has the yellow paint/crayon number that looks to be "030" it is in the same place and looks similar to the engine assembly numbers on our vintage cars.
It also has all the spark plug wire holders in the correct place and the head bolt held heat shields for the spark plug boots, but that could also just be someone who did quality work, when and if work was done. Most of the time, a few of all of those things once removed were not installed back on to the engine.

I think your idea of checking casting dates of the heads can help.
Where are the casting dates located on the heads?

 

[Bad B-rad]

On the 3751213 head it looks like 0653 is the only other number I saw, I will have to recheck and I did not write down the one on the 346 head, if that is the casting date

This is all just for fun, its not like I am gonna restore the motor home, also it looks like the part of the engine block where the VIN (or part of the vin) would be stamped is blank, is that how Winnebago engines were left?

 

[bolson6333]

do both heads take tapered spark plugs?

 

[pnora]

On the 3751213 head it looks like 0653 is the only other number I saw, I will have to recheck and I did not write down the one on the 346 head, if that is the casting date

This is all just for fun, its not like I am gonna restore the motor home, also it looks like the part of the engine block where the VIN (or part of the vin) would be stamped is blank, is that how Winnebago engines were left?

Hard to say on the VIN. Being a M series chassis puts it in the heavier truck category. They were also sold as just a running drive train with a seat, dash, steering. Just enough to be mobile. The motor home companies put the body on. I am not sure what the VIN number reads like compared to truck chassis. Another possibility was a engine short block replacement with maybe just one head. If that was done right, and painted it might be hard to tell.

 

[Bad B-rad]

Ok so both heads currently have what look to be regular spark plugs, with out the washer.
Currently in it are AC R43TS plugs.
Both heads have blue valve springs, with an inner damper spring located on all exhaust valves.
the 213 head has a 0653, or 0633, very hard to tell, the 346 head has 0063 cast next to the runner.


The engine is so freaking spotless inside, it could be a rebuild, just painted and using the correct plug wire brackets and heat shields.
Most of these engines have some sludge in them, this baby is CLEAN!.
I will post some photos

 

[pnora]

As far as I know they should take the 14mm 3/8 reach plug with the gasket. Do those plugs have a tapered seat? If so they are wrong. Seen them wrongly installed before.
As far as clean you would think it should be. The run hot and with good maintenance they should be. Again not knowing the history it could have been done years ago and no miles.

 

[pnora]

The 43ts is taper seat. Do the plugs go straight in or angle.

 

[bolson6333]

motor home heads take tapered seat plugs no washer and they go straight in

 

[pnora]

motor home heads take tapered seat plugs no washer and they go straight in

I was thinking the same. Not sure when they switched to the peanut 5/8 plug. The 452 heads also take the tapered seat. I remember some talk of some earlier casting being superseded to the 452 number. So just maybe this motor could of had two different casting number heads.

 

[33 IMP]

Motorhomes overheat. Replacement of a cracked head?

 

[bolson6333]

the only factory 440 heads I have ever seen take a tapered plug were on a motor home

 

[Bad B-rad]

Most of the time, I figured the sludge in the engine as 1/2 from miles and maintenance, a half from the oil spending years upon years in the engine. Most of the cars I get have spent years, (10 or more ) sitting out behind a house, or in the yard. Just what I had kinda thought.

I think all above ideas are possible, and maybe the casting dates hold a clue?

I will post some photos of the way the plugs enter the head,here is the casting date on driver head 213, and valve springs.

 

[moparmarks]

I'm voting that the head was replaced. I have a set of 213 heads and they are not just laying around everywhere. Kind of hard to find.

 

[Bad B-rad]

If one head was replaced,and that very well could be, I would guess it would have been the 346 one, as the 213 is a "motorhome " head, and it came from a motor home, LOL!
I also would guess it was done early in its life, maybe under warranty, and by a dealer, that would account for the valve springs from both sides looking the same, and the spark plug heat shields being put back in correct place,(the ones held down with lower head bolts) and the plug wire clips that get bolted to the head.
It did have a Chrysler branded upper rad hose, with the spring clamps, lower one had the screw hose clamps, and no markings.

Anything is possible, I was just curious if there was any reason, that this may have been done on purpose, from the factory, and what that reason would be.

Kind of like when big blocks came in "A" body cars how one engine mount was unique to the "A" body and differed from the driver side.(same with the one side of the exhaust manifold, so it would fit)

When I get out to shop I will grab some more photos.

So from what a few sites say casting date on heads are first 3 numbers are for the day it was cast, last number is for the year.

So for the motorhome head #213 cast on 63rd day of 1973, and the #346 head on the 6th day of 1973.
The engine block was cast on 2-27-73.

I will double check the casting numbers, when I go to shop, and also check the intake manifold casting date.

 

[Bad B-rad]

The plugs look to come out straight,(on both heads on the 440) they take a 5/8 socket, and they only have a very small recess around the hole for the plug to thread into the head, when compaired to a set of "906" heads.
The 906 heads have a much larger, and lightly deeper recess.
I would guess this is for the crush washer to seat up on.

 

[JG71B]

Wow that is clean A/F!. And I thought my 50k mile 78 400 4bbl N.Yorker motor was clean inside. It is but, not THAT clean. No way it's been ran. Not long if so. Nice. Aren't the 213 heads basically the same as a 346 heads with just different water passages and plugs or something like that?