1977 lean burn 440 and $1800 budget

[Bcamp69]

I recently acquired a lean burn 440 from a 1977 new yorker along with a 727 transmission (told tranny was freshly rebuilt) and engine has 54k on it.

I don’t intend to spend time on the strip but I would like to be able to fry the tires. I also love cruising at 55 for hours down country highways with the windows down while listening to the motor. It’s going in a 69’ roadrunner hardtop with 3:23 rear and 727 tranny.

I would like to be around 10:1 compression because I feel like that’s a good number and quite versatile if my desire for speed changes. It currently has 452 heads on it and everything I assume is bone stock.

What do I do with this $1800 I have currently to spend (yes I know budget will grow but right now I have $1800 set aside to start).

 

[Bcamp69]

Here’s the starting line.

 

[69 GTX]

I'd start with the short block I'd stick closer to 9-9.5:1 if you don't plan on racing. A performer RPM intake, Comp 268 high energy cam & 750 vac secondary carb. You'll have torque to fry the tires at a roll, nice idle, and run any gas you want.

 

[Bcamp69]

I'd start with the short block I'd stick closer to 9-9.5:1 if you don't plan on racing. A performer RPM intake, Comp 268 high energy cam & 750 vac secondary carb. You'll have torque to fry the tires at a roll, nice idle, and run any gas you want.

Sounds perfect. I’d like to keep cast crank and stock rods to keep costs down. I’m thinking machine shop here I come, maybe .030.

 

[69 GTX]

I ran this set up in my 440 with 10:1 back in the 80's and it would ping a little. But with 3.91 gears it would spin the N50s at 30 mph.

 

[Challenger340]

I'd start with the short block I'd stick closer to 9-9.5:1 if you don't plan on racing. A performer RPM intake, Comp 268 high energy cam & 750 vac secondary carb. You'll have torque to fry the tires at a roll, nice idle, and run any gas you want.

Some pretty darn good advice right there above !

But IMO, pay attention(as stated above), waste of time until you get into the short block itself and install different PISTONS, and be forewarned here.... the advertised factory "replacement" Cast Pistons are NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE TO 8.5:1...... let be heaven forbid 10:1 which the books list even for the '68-70 "replacement" Piston !
With 452 Heads and a composition style Head Gasket, and assuming no Block Milling just a "Bore & Hone" job.... look for Pistons close to 2.060" Compression Distance like the FM L2355 or ICON 9953, both Forged and requiring a crank balance job as well.

 

[Bcamp69]

How do I achieve 9.5:1? Full disclosure this will be the first engine I’ve assembled. Which pistons should I buy? What needs to be done with the rods? Pressed or floating pins?

Can I keep my stock rockers if I buy new hydraulic flat tappet cam/lifters?

Again trying to keep cost down and still achieve a strong cruiser.

Heads? Keep 452 heads? Buy stealth heads? Eddy rpm heads? Trickflow heads? Of course heads will come later but I’d like to plan for those also so I don’t have compression issues/losses down the road.

I’d like to get bottom end complete, get engine in my car so I can cruise this spring and summer and then be in a position to bolt on upgrades without pulling the motor once it’s in and I have more cash.

 

[Don Frelier]

Not sure you can bore .030, deck the block, get new pistons, balance, cam etc... for $1,800?
The completed short block alone will cost more than that.

 

[Bcamp69]

Not sure you can bore .030, deck the block, get new pistons, balance, cam etc... for $1,800?
The completed short block alone will cost more than that.

I understand it will cost more than $1800 when finished.

I’m asking how I best spend the $1800 I have to begin with and start this project. With that said, I don’t need a strip monster and don’t plan to race. I’m more of a street light to street light, low end and country highway cruising guy. I also don’t want to spend $7500 when finished because I don’t think it’s necessary for me and what I enjoy.

I’d like to use existing cast crank and rods if possible to keep costs down.

 

[Bcamp69]

Some pretty darn good advice right there above !

But IMO, pay attention(as stated above), waste of time until you get into the short block itself and install different PISTONS, and be forewarned here.... the advertised factory "replacement" Cast Pistons are NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE TO 8.5:1...... let be heaven forbid 10:1 which the books list even for the '68-70 "replacement" Piston !
With 452 Heads and a composition style Head Gasket, and assuming no Block Milling just a "Bore & Hone" job.... look for Pistons close to 2.060" Compression Distance like the FM L2355 or ICON 9953, both Forged and requiring a crank balance job as well.

Thank you, I’ll look into each of those pistons. I found the ICONS for $531.99 through Summit which doesn’t seem too bad.

So once I have the engine honed/bored and know the diameter I purchase the pistons and take the pistons, cast crank, and ly rods to the machine shop for balancing?

Any suggestions as far as bearings, rear seal, main studs or bolt, rod studs or bolts, rings?

 

[Challenger340]

Thank you, I’ll look into each of those pistons. I found the ICONS for $531.99 through Summit which doesn’t seem too bad.

So once I have the engine honed/bored and know the diameter I purchase the pistons and take the pistons, cast crank, and ly rods to the machine shop for balancing?

Any suggestions as far as bearings, rear seal, main studs or bolt, rod studs or bolts, rings?

We used to use the ICON 9953's almost exclusively in our "lowly 440" series Pkg Engines,in conjunction with the STEALTH Heads for that "sleeper" look.
We'd see anywhere from around 475 to 550 hp and Trq, depending upon Hydraulic Flat tappet Cam selected, and the Head work/prep applied to the STEALTH's, the lower 475 hp/520 Ft/Lbs being OOTB STEALTH's Untouched and the Comp XE274H.

Bit of a long read on std 440 builds, but you can go read here for some idea's of what we did:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html

 

[Don Frelier]

Given the nice looking rockers, assuming the engine runs well today and has no internal problems beyond normal wear at 54K.
If you have any interest in sticking to your budget (cause these things always cost more than you anticipated).
I would stay away from the deep dive on the engine rebuild.
1. Put an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on it.
2. Summit Cam (larger one) with a good timing set degree the cam properly
3. Either rebuild original carb or a new one something in the 700 - 750 CFM range
4. A set of performance mufflers
5. Electronic ignition Mopar or ready to run like MSD Firecore etc... take your pick
6. Put an Air/Fuel Ratio gauge on it and tune it.

All these together will cost you less than $1,800. You will learn alot and done right tuned properly it should run well.

 

[Bcamp69]

We used to use the ICON 9953's almost exclusively in our "lowly 440" series Pkg Engines,in conjunction with the STEALTH Heads for that "sleeper" look.
We'd see anywhere from around 475 to 550 hp and Trq, depending upon Hydraulic Flat tappet Cam selected, and the Head work/prep applied to the STEALTH's, the lower 475 hp/520 Ft/Lbs being OOTB STEALTH's Untouched and the Comp XE274H.

Bit of a long read on std 440 builds, but you can go read here for some idea's of what we did:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.0.html

Awesome I’ll give it a read.

 

[YY1]

If you are tearing it down, let the machine shop tell you if it needs an overbore.

otherwise, why spend the money? a 50K mile motor shouldn't need it.

In fact, it's likely a 50K mile motor doesn't need rebuilt at all.

Item one on the list should be a non-lean burn distributor.

Item two should probably be a less complicated carb, although the TQ is possibly serviceable.

I'd then look at thin head gaskets and possibly shaving the heads for your compression bump.

Is an intake necessary? Possibly not.

I'd get a good set of ceramic coated headers like Doughs, or TTi, although I have some respected info that Flowtech is also good with very minimal mods for almost 1/2 the price.

I'd also look at a mild cam bump (with lifters), like maybe a 270-280 duration with just enough lift to not need guide work, or if that's necessary, do that while shaving them. Anything more than that and you'll likely need to start thinking about a converter.

I think I may have just spent your 1.8K and we didn't even do rings and bearings, let alone pistons and all that machine work!

...and if it doesn't already have a sure-grip, I'd add one of those to the list.
It's MUCH more fun to go sideways than to keep replacing only the right side tire!

 

[Bcamp69]

Given the nice looking rockers, assuming the engine runs well today and has no internal problems beyond normal wear at 54K.
If you have any interest in sticking to your budget (cause these things always cost more than you anticipated).
I would stay away from the deep dive on the engine rebuild.
1. Put an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on it.
2. Summit Cam (larger one) with a good timing set degree the cam properly
3. Either rebuild original carb or a new one something in the 700 - 750 CFM range
4. A set of performance mufflers
5. Electronic ignition Mopar or ready to run like MSD Firecore etc... take your pick
6. Put an Air/Fuel Ratio gauge on it and tune it.

All these together will cost you less than $1,800. You will learn alot and done right tuned properly it should run well.

Funny you say that. I initially wanted to take this route for this year so I called Summit a couple days ago and asked for a cam recommendation. The guy said he couldn’t make a recommendation worth purchasing for a low compression 440. I told him I believe the engine is currently somewhere around 8.0:1 (google research based guess on my behalf). He said pistons pistons pistons, gotta get your compression up above all else.

 

[Bcamp69]

If you are tearing it down, let the machine shop tell you if it needs an overbore.

otherwise, why spend the money? a 50K mile motor shouldn't need it.

In fact, it's likely a 50K mile motor doesn't need rebuilt at all.

Item one on the list should be a non-lean burn distributor.

Item two should probably be a less complicated carb, although the TQ is possibly serviceable.

I'd then look at thin head gaskets and possibly shaving the heads for your compression bump.

Is an intake necessary? Possibly not.

I'd get a good set of ceramic coated headers like Doughs, or TTi, although I have some respected info that Flowtech is also good with very minimal mods for almost 1/2 the price.

I'd also look at a mild cam bump (with lifters), like maybe a 270-280 duration with just enough lift to not need guide work, or if that's necessary, do that while shaving them. Anything more than that and you'll likely need to start thinking about a converter.

I think I may have just spent your 1.8K and we didn't even do rings and bearings, let alone pistons and all that machine work!

...and if it doesn't already have a sure-grip, I'd add one of those to the list.
It's MUCH more fun to go sideways than to keep replacing only the right side tire!

This sounds like it’s right up my alley. Lean burn carb is gone but other than that I’ve only pulled a valve cover to determine which heads it has.

That durn summit guy, told me I needed pistons ans higher compression.

3:23 suregrip in the car. Factory original 383 is still in there also but I fear I hurt the thrust bearing so it’s coming out and gonna look pretty in my garage. I’ll thrash on one I care less about.

 

[Don Frelier]

He's not wrong, but the Summit cam closes the intake early which is good a low compression motor. Their cam is cheap but pretty well made.
At 2,500 rpm that thing will make some power.

 

[YY1]

agree on degreeing the cam.

details like this can make a novice build seem like a pro build and be the difference between a low buck screamer and a money pit turd

I just assumed an OEM electronic ignition- they are dirt cheap and silly easy

 

[69 GTX]

If you can get a flat top piston with a D shaped dish that will help with quench and pinging. Icon 836 is a good choice.

 

[BSB67]

I’m more of a street light to street light, low end and country highway cruising guy. I also don’t want to spend $7500 when finished because I don’t think it’s necessary for me and what I enjoy.

I’d like to use existing cast crank and rods if possible to keep costs down.

Folks are sending you down a rabbit hole. If you're talking new pistons today, you'll be way over your $7,500 when you're done. Don't take my word for it.