318 vs 360 vs 440

[RockyPat]

Which Trans and rear-end are currently in the car

I have a 904 currently in the car, but have a 727 as well. The rear end I believe is an 8 1/4 unit.

 

[RockyPat]

View attachment 1162452

It costs the same for machine work. Bore and hone, hot tank cleaning, surface decking, heads resurfaced, valve jobs, etc.
Parts for the LA will be cheaper since so many more of them were made.
A 383 has a shorter stroke than a 360 and almost the same stroke as a 273-318-340 so they will rev about the same, all else being equal.
A 4.0 stroked 318 makes a 390 cubic inch engine. Headers fit better, it is lighter than any big block. This may be a viable option for you.

I like the meme!

You make some great points Kern Dog. I guess at this point I should really start crunching numbers and seeing what a mild 440 build and swap would cost compared to a 318-390 build.

Thanks!

 

[RockyPat]

Heavy cars love torque. Any BB with good compression, the right convertor and rear gear.. there ya go!

Seems like a solid plan no doubt, and a reasonable one. Thanks for the comment!

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Early 90s We built a low compression rv cam 360 for our 73 roadrunner and it was disappointing. It was a heavy high geared slug. We hated it in the rr and moved the engine over to a lighter 70 challenger with a 3 speed manual and 3.23; we were surprised when it went 14.4@92. That engine then got put in a 76 E58 dart sport with 3.90s and 3500 stall. High 12 second car I would guess. Gears and a light car is a game changer for a small block. Heavy B body with tall gears you just can't beat displacement. The exception is with boost on a sb. Mid 90s we did a turbo on a 318 in our '72 and that made serious torque. Boost is where it's at if you want a powerful small block.

 

[RockyPat]

I agree with others a mild 440 would probably be your best bet economically to achieve what you are wanting inthat heavy of a car.
Good luck!
You may get more input if you disclose your budget as well.

I agree that a mild 440 would probably fit my needs well. I do not have a set budget because I do not know how much everything would cost. I would have to do more research to get a solid idea. Thanks Mike

 

[RockyPat]

Early 90s We built a low compression rv cam 360 for our 73 roadrunner and it was disappointing. It was a heavy high geared slug. We hated it in the rr and moved the engine over to a lighter 70 challenger with a 3 speed manual and 3.23; 14.4@92. That engine then got put in a 76 E58 dart sport with 3.90s and 3500 stall. High 12 second car I would guess. Gears and a light car is a game changer for a small block. Heavy B body with tall gears you just can't beat displacement. The exception is with boost on a sb. Mid 90s we did a turbo on a 318 in our '72 and that made serious torque. Boost is where it's at if you want a powerful small block.

Okay this is what I am trying to avoid. I do not want to build an engine/powertrain and have it be dissatisfying. I would like to build something that is going to be enjoyable once. Thanks for commenting your experience. It helps me a lot!

 

[diesel_lv]

Is the 727 from a big block or small block? If big block, then go 440. If you have a little bit of budget and want less weight, a 440 w aluminum heads, intake, water pump housing, water pump and headers weighs about the same as a stock small block.

 

[RockyPat]

Is the 727 from a big block or small block? If big block, then go 440. If you have a little bit of budget and want less weight, a 440 w aluminum heads, intake, water pump housing, water pump and headers weighs about the same as a stock small block.

Its a big block 727, and you are right. With aluminum parts on a BB it can really lessen the weight. Thanks

 

[Mike67]

Highly recommend reading some of the threads and comments made by IQ52 and I believe DVW regarding power and low compression big blocks. They have some pretty impressive results.
Just type in Low Compression in the search box and enter IQ52 or DVW to bring up the results.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Speaking of lowbuck 440 budget builds...
In '88 our 69 charger spun a bearing on its 383 and we bought a low mileage '75 rv 440. We took the oil pan and water pump and motor mounts off the 383 and moved the crappy headers over to the 440. The 440 cam wasn't the best so we put in a TRW 204/[email protected]. We also did a transgo shift kit and the car had 3.23 posi. We would not have won any dyno competitions but it ran really hard, especially for no more then we had in it, a cam and a few gaskets. The 440 had 15k miles, I would guess that played a big part in why it ran the way it did.
Like your 71 our 72 satellite was a 318 car. In high school we added headers, performer intake and tried 3 different cams on the 318. The 318 was fun from about 30mph and faster. It just didn't have much umph off the line. The bigger the cam got the worse off the line it was. Our best was a 15.6@90 w 3.23. We then put on a diesel turbo while we were in college. We ran 12 lbs boost on av gas.. It likely was 450hp and 500+ lbs of torque and "when" it ran good it was a heck of a lot of fun. But we kept blowing head gaskets and we got sick of working on it so in went a rerung 70 440 w ported 516 heads. The 440 was out of a new Yorker and we used all the accessories and mounts. The rings, bearings and even head gaskets were 2nd hand out of our charger, including the trw rv cam I mentioned earlier. The satellite was a consistant high 13sec car with exhaust manifolds and we had invested $100 for the 70 New Yorker and $35 in addition to our used parts on the shelf.

 

[Hilljack68]

Are you going to drag race the beast, or will it be a cruiser? How important is gas mileage, dependability, and ease of maintenance? Things to consider.

If it's a cruiser, and you're more concerned with dependability and a little better mpg, go small block. If you'll be racing her, or just want raw power, go 440.

Best of both worlds... a mild build on a 340 or 360.

It's really a matter of your own personal preferences. I have a 68 Coronet with a slightly built 340, and I'm very happy with it. She's around 360 hp, and just right for a cruiser. You have to figure out what's best for YOU.

 

[Michael_]

I'd say 426 hemi

Obviously the best but most expensive choice.

But it also depends on what you want to do with the car.
If the hemi is out i would probably go 440 route.

 

[BSB67]

It's dejavoodoo all over again.

That made me laugh.

 

[HawkRod]

So I have both a big block (1970) and small block (1973) Road Runner. I just built a stroker 340 that has 416 cubic inches for the 1973. It runs like a scared ape, but no, doing a build like that will not be a budget build. With aluminum heads and intake, it is a really light and powerful package, even in a big, heavy B-body. But the biggest cost is the stroker assembly (if you stick with stock heads). Once you get to machining, doing so for a big block vs. small block will be the same.

Having said that, swapping to a big block is NOT just some motor mounts. Don't forget about alternator, power steering, A/C and other brackets. There will be lots of small parts that will add up quickly that do not bolt between small block and big block engines.

Don't get me wrong, from a budget perspective I still think the best way for you to get some budget torque and power may be to do a mild 440 build, but just don't forget about the other stuff too. Another option is to buy a complete stroker 360 engine, for example from Blueprint engines. These can be quite reasonable in cost and drop right in.

Good luck with your project!

 

[496 polara]

First thing to ask is how much is your budget? Nothing more disheartening than getting halfway through a project and running out of money or desire(or both).
I would look around for a used running engine/trans (preferably in a car that you can hear run and maybe test drive).Use whatever is the best starting point requiring the least amount of repair/upgrading.
Big blocks are great but whatever is the most sound option is what I would look for on a budget.

 

[Moms68]

Hello everyone,

I have a 1971 Charger with a 318.

I got a 383 with a 727 and two Edlebrock performer B and RB intakes. One of each.

I was going to swap the 383/727 combo into my Charger, but the 383 is not going to be saved. Too much cylinder wall pitting, stuck, and already 40 over.

I was planning to find a 440 to swap in with my 727 and performer intake, but then a buddy of mine yesterday was talking about how awesome the small blocks are and how they can be stroked out to higher cubes while still being lighter than a big block.

He was talking about how they rev higher than big blocks and are cheaper to build.

I like the big block torque, but my car is already set up for a small block.

I know a 360 is externally balanced, and those issues have to be accounted for.

I could also use my 318, but it is stuck as well. Unknown internal condition.

Anyone know from experience how much cheaper a small block is to build than a big block roughly?

What would you guys do? Stay small block or swap to a big block?

I am trying to stay on a budget.

Any other help would be awesome!

Thank you!

As others have said a 440 is a great choice, but can be costly compared to a small block transplant. I have a built (not stroked) 340 in my b-body, with around 350hp, and it has met my expectations. I do have an 8 3/4” rear with 3.23 posi and a rebuilt 904 with a shift kit.

All of the accessories switched over, but I did replace the radiator with an aluminum one.

This all depends on what you are expecting out of it and how much $$$ you want to spend. Someday I will do a 440 swap but for the time being this setup works.

 

[dvw]

The easiest swap is a 360. You can add a low gear set to the 904. All the pulleys, brackets, trans, exhaust (if its worthy), and driveshaft will still work. Slight mod to the drivers side motor mount bracket. I did one of these swaps last year into a 68 Satellite convertible. Used a 360 Magnum short block (8.9-1 true compression), Eddy heads, Eddy Performer RPM intake, Eddy 600 carb, headers, .550 hyd roller with the factory lifters. 3.23 with the low gear set. Runs on 87 octane. Performs very well. Will spin the 275/60s all the way thru 1st gear from a slow roll. I would say its an easy low to mid 13 second car.
Doug

 

[dvw]

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Long stroke + heavy car = win

 

[Cranky]

Missed this until now so didn't read it all. Have you said what you plan to do with the car? Just a cruiser or would you like for it to handle pretty well in the corners too? It's a lot easier to set up a car to handle when the front end is light. Not saying you can't make a big block car handle well but it's just harder to do. My 71 340 Cuda with factory front and rear sway bars did pretty well but never had a big block E body that did better without having to go with bigger sway bars etc and even at that, they were more 'piggish' in the turns than the small block was. A buddy of mine had a 440 6 pack in his 72 Cuda and that thing did real well in the corners but it also rode like a 3/4 ton truck after he got done with it while my Cuda did almost as good but had a good ride to it going down the highway at speed. Nothing was stock with his suspension while mine was totally stock....and even he was surprised how well mannered my Cuda was but if you want brute power for stop light action, go with a big block. Me, I like big bore with short stroke engines so I would be hunting down a 400.....plus they are the same external size as a 383....and weigh a bit less than a 440. A forged crank from a 383 is a perfect fit into them too. Imo, if you're going to stroke an engine, may as well go with a 440 especially if you don't have the budget for doing a stroker.