318 vs 360 vs 440

[hunt2elk]

The easiest swap is a 360. You can add a low gear set to the 904. All the pulleys, brackets, trans, exhaust (if its worthy), and driveshaft will still work. Slight mod to the drivers side motor mount bracket. I did one of these swaps last year into a 68 Satellite convertible. Used a 360 Magnum short block (8.9-1 true compression), Eddy heads, Eddy Performer RPM intake, Eddy 600 carb, headers, .550 hyd roller with the factory lifters. 3.23 with the low gear set. Runs on 87 octane. Performs very well. Will spin the 275/60s all the way thru 1st gear from a slow roll. I would say its an easy low to mid 13 second car.
Doug

That is very impressive imo in a B-body.

 

[RockyPat]

Highly recommend reading some of the threads and comments made by IQ52 and I believe DVW regarding power and low compression big blocks. They have some pretty impressive results.
Just type in Low Compression in the search box and enter IQ52 or DVW to bring up the results.

Thanks Mike. I have read through some of IQ52's threads before and they are great. I will have to look into DVW's threads.

 

[RockyPat]

Speaking of lowbuck 440 budget builds...
In '88 our 69 charger spun a bearing on its 383 and we bought a low mileage '75 rv 440. We took the oil pan and water pump and motor mounts off the 383 and moved the crappy headers over to the 440. The 440 cam wasn't the best so we put in a TRW 204/[email protected]. We also did a transgo shift kit and the car had 3.23 posi. We would not have won any dyno competitions but it ran really hard, especially for no more then we had in it, a cam and a few gaskets. The 440 had 15k miles, I would guess that played a big part in why it ran the way it did.
Like your 71 our 72 satellite was a 318 car. In high school we added headers, performer intake and tried 3 different cams on the 318. The 318 was fun from about 30mph and faster. It just didn't have much umph off the line. The bigger the cam got the worse off the line it was. Our best was a 15.6@90 w 3.23. We then put on a diesel turbo while we were in college. We ran 12 lbs boost on av gas.. It likely was 450hp and 500+ lbs of torque and "when" it ran good it was a heck of a lot of fun. But we kept blowing head gaskets and we got sick of working on it so in went a rerung 70 440 w ported 516 heads. The 440 was out of a new Yorker and we used all the accessories and mounts. The rings, bearings and even head gaskets were 2nd hand out of our charger, including the trw rv cam I mentioned earlier. The satellite was a consistant high 13sec car with exhaust manifolds and we had invested $100 for the 70 New Yorker and $35 in addition to our used parts on the shelf.

I like the idea of getting a running, low mileage 440 to stick into my car to make it a cheap runner for the time being. Thanks for your comment. Lots of very good information. I have never ran the 318 in my car. I would rather not dump any money into it when there are better options out there. In my opinion. Boost would be a whole other animal!! Sounds like lots of fun though!

 

[RockyPat]

I'd say 426 hemi

Obviously the best but most expensive choice.

But it also depends on what you want to do with the car.
If the hemi is out i would probably go 440 route.

If only... HAHA

Hemis are awesome, but way too expensive for me.

Thanks for your comment and recommendation Michael.

 

[RockyPat]

Are you going to drag race the beast, or will it be a cruiser? How important is gas mileage, dependability, and ease of maintenance? Things to consider.

If it's a cruiser, and you're more concerned with dependability and a little better mpg, go small block. If you'll be racing her, or just want raw power, go 440.

Best of both worlds... a mild build on a 340 or 360.

It's really a matter of your own personal preferences. I have a 68 Coronet with a slightly built 340, and I'm very happy with it. She's around 360 hp, and just right for a cruiser. You have to figure out what's best for YOU.

It will be cruiser, I would like to be able to take it to the strip for fun maybe once or twice. Gas mileage is not too much of a concern, but more efficiency is always better. Dependability and maintenance are important. Thanks for your comment. You have given me good things to consider. 440 raw power vs fun small block...

 

[RockyPat]

So I have both a big block (1970) and small block (1973) Road Runner. I just built a stroker 340 that has 416 cubic inches for the 1973. It runs like a scared ape, but no, doing a build like that will not be a budget build. With aluminum heads and intake, it is a really light and powerful package, even in a big, heavy B-body. But the biggest cost is the stroker assembly (if you stick with stock heads). Once you get to machining, doing so for a big block vs. small block will be the same.

Having said that, swapping to a big block is NOT just some motor mounts. Don't forget about alternator, power steering, A/C and other brackets. There will be lots of small parts that will add up quickly that do not bolt between small block and big block engines.

Don't get me wrong, from a budget perspective I still think the best way for you to get some budget torque and power may be to do a mild 440 build, but just don't forget about the other stuff too. Another option is to buy a complete stroker 360 engine, for example from Blueprint engines. These can be quite reasonable in cost and drop right in.

Good luck with your project!

Thanks for the comment. It is nice to hear that a built small block can provide plenty of power for a B body.

I have motor mounts (old), alternator, power steering brackets, and the parts themselves. Just missing A/C stuff for a big block. I do not know if small block A/C can fit big block...

I agree that it is not as simple as swapping a few things. Very good advice to know what I would be getting into.

I like a mild 440 build for its torque. A stroker 360 would be cool, but I think I would like to build this engine myself to learn. A 360 built by myself could be an option.

Thank you!

 

[RockyPat]

First thing to ask is how much is your budget? Nothing more disheartening than getting halfway through a project and running out of money or desire(or both).
I would look around for a used running engine/trans (preferably in a car that you can hear run and maybe test drive).Use whatever is the best starting point requiring the least amount of repair/upgrading.
Big blocks are great but whatever is the most sound option is what I would look for on a budget.

My budget is a small one, but I do not know an exact amount yet. The cheaper the better. You are completely right about not being able to finish a project because of money. I am trying to not let that happen.

Thanks for bringing up a running engine. I have thought about this option. Even if its not a permanent solution, it would get my car running for a bit. I could rebuild it later.

Thanks!

 

[RockyPat]

As others have said a 440 is a great choice, but can be costly compared to a small block transplant. I have a built (not stroked) 340 in my b-body, with around 350hp, and it has met my expectations. I do have an 8 3/4” rear with 3.23 posi and a rebuilt 904 with a shift kit.

All of the accessories switched over, but I did replace the radiator with an aluminum one.

This all depends on what you are expecting out of it and how much $$$ you want to spend. Someday I will do a 440 swap but for the time being this setup works.

Thanks for your comment. I do think that a small block would satisfy my needs, but I would not want to regret not going big block when I had the chance.

Rear gears, transmission, and radiator are all things I plan on doing similarly to you.

 

[RockyPat]

The easiest swap is a 360. You can add a low gear set to the 904. All the pulleys, brackets, trans, exhaust (if its worthy), and driveshaft will still work. Slight mod to the drivers side motor mount bracket. I did one of these swaps last year into a 68 Satellite convertible. Used a 360 Magnum short block (8.9-1 true compression), Eddy heads, Eddy Performer RPM intake, Eddy 600 carb, headers, .550 hyd roller with the factory lifters. 3.23 with the low gear set. Runs on 87 octane. Performs very well. Will spin the 275/60s all the way thru 1st gear from a slow roll. I would say its an easy low to mid 13 second car.
Doug

Thanks for your comment Doug! Awesome build. Seems like a magnum swap is a great idea. The performance you are getting with it is great. The only thing I worry about is head selection. Aluminum heads are expensive, especially the Edlebrocks. But, I would save money on the swap parts because everything would stay the same mostly. I am also unsure of how the external balance would work when swapping it for my 318. Thanks for including specs!

 

[RockyPat]

Long stroke + heavy car = win

Low end torque is great. That is one of my main goals. Thanks

 

[RockyPat]

Missed this until now so didn't read it all. Have you said what you plan to do with the car? Just a cruiser or would you like for it to handle pretty well in the corners too? It's a lot easier to set up a car to handle when the front end is light. Not saying you can't make a big block car handle well but it's just harder to do. My 71 340 Cuda with factory front and rear sway bars did pretty well but never had a big block E body that did better without having to go with bigger sway bars etc and even at that, they were more 'piggish' in the turns than the small block was. A buddy of mine had a 440 6 pack in his 72 Cuda and that thing did real well in the corners but it also rode like a 3/4 ton truck after he got done with it while my Cuda did almost as good but had a good ride to it going down the highway at speed. Nothing was stock with his suspension while mine was totally stock....and even he was surprised how well mannered my Cuda was but if you want brute power for stop light action, go with a big block. Me, I like big bore with short stroke engines so I would be hunting down a 400.....plus they are the same external size as a 383....and weigh a bit less than a 440. A forged crank from a 383 is a perfect fit into them too. Imo, if you're going to stroke an engine, may as well go with a 440 especially if you don't have the budget for doing a stroker.

I would like it to be a fun street cruiser. Better handling is always a plus. You are right about handling and suspension. I have read elsewhere too that a big block car does not handle as well as a small block car without doing a extra work to it. Also, there would extra costs involved with getting suspension parts that could handle a big block. I do like the idea of a 400, especially since I have a 383 crankshaft that should be in good condition to swap in. Thanks for your comment. Lots of things to consider...

 

[RockyPat]

That is very impressive imo in a B-body.

I could not agree more!

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Thanks for the comment. It is nice to hear that a built small block can provide plenty of power for a B body.

I have motor mounts (old), alternator, power steering brackets, and the parts themselves. Just missing A/C stuff for a big block. I do not know if small block A/C can fit big block...
!

Either need to find ac for a bb pre '72 car Or go with a modern ac compressor.
If you decide to go w a 360...get a good stall convertor. That is the best thing you can do to be satisfied with it.

 

[BSB67]

I agree with others a mild 440 would probably be your best bet economically to achieve what you are wanting inthat heavy of a car.
Good luck!
You may get more input if you disclose your budget as well.

Humor us. Bracket your budget for us.

A used 360 short block, and add good heads, cam, headers/exhaust, induction will probably be on the sunny side of $5,000.

 

[dvw]

Thanks for your comment Doug! Awesome build. Seems like a magnum swap is a great idea. The performance you are getting with it is great. The only thing I worry about is head selection. Aluminum heads are expensive, especially the Edlebrocks. But, I would save money on the swap parts because everything would stay the same mostly. I am also unsure of how the external balance would work when swapping it for my 318. Thanks for including specs!

We purchased the weight package from Mopar ane weld the weights to a neutral balance converter. The 360 magnum and the LA 360 use different weight.
Doug

 

[RockyPat]

Either need to find ac for a bb pre '72 car Or go with a modern ac compressor.
If you decide to go w a 360...get a good stall convertor. That is the best thing you can do to be satisfied with it.

Thanks for helping me with the AC stuff. I have read that stall convertors can make a solid difference.

 

[RockyPat]

Humor us. Bracket your budget for us.

A used 360 short block, and add good heads, cam, headers/exhaust, induction will probably be on the sunny side of $5,000.

So you are saying that a 440 cannot be built on a budget? Thanks for the comment and 360 setup.

 

[RockyPat]

We purchased the weight package from Mopar ane weld the weights to a neutral balance converter. The 360 magnum and the LA 360 use different weight.
Doug

Thanks Doug. I thought this was case. I figured something had to be modified. Keep up the good engine building work!

 

[BSB67]

So you are saying that a 440 cannot be built on a budget? Thanks for the comment and 360 setup.

No, that’s not what I’m saying. I have no idea what “ built on a budget” means to you.

im saying that not doing much with a 360 will be over $5,000, and doing the same with a 440 will be more because of all the other changes needed to make it work in a car set up for a small block

 

[Bb70charger500]

You don't need to go stroker!
You can get good power out of a small block ! Big blocks make the car noise heavy . I always go small block .