383 build how to get close to 500 hp with out a stroker kit?

[99ss]

Lot of interesting responses in here.
Blue printing the engine doesnt do a freaking thing to add power..... Yes its nice to say it was built with precision.. balanced and blue printed. It will add to longevity but as far as a power option it is not... Although I will say my builder says he picks up 15 hp over others because they dont align hone.

Yes you want to deck the block per the piston to get proper quench .. This will help with tiiming and detonation IIRC

You want the best flowing heads you can get... I am not a mopar engine expert at all so I cant tell you what heads those are going to be but they will need to be ported and polished.
The cam is obviously going to be big. An engine is air pump.. More air in more air out more power made.

If it was a Chevy Ls1 383 it wouldnt be an issue to make 500 at all.. quite simple really.. power is made in the heads and those engines can run 7k rpms all day long. SO the valve train would be a good place to put money as well. Valve float isnt going to help you at all. 3" exhaust ( dual) and at least and 850 carb with a dual plane intake.. Eddy rpm air gap port matched and hog out where you can.

EFI or not doesnt really matter I dont think.. its only 500 hp

 

[696pack]

You can 12:1 on pump gas with aluminum heads. My engine is going to blueprint at 10.4 with iron heads and I fully expect it to run on pump gas.

As has been said before, it's ALL in the heads.

EDIT:
I just noticed you are going to run 10.4 NOT 12 compression so you will be right there with me which with iron heads will be boarderline too. No way will you get away with pump premium wit 12 compression even with aluminum heads though.

Is going to? So you have not done it yet to know the real results. I believe you are going to be in for a big surprise. My 523 440 stroker with worked iron heads had 11.6 compression and we could not stop the ping without seriously retarding the timing which of course took its toll on the h.p. We reduced the compression to 10.3 and problem solved. No, they are not aluminum heads however my mechanic buddy has a Jeep with a small block 408 stroker WITH aluminum heads and NOS. His compression is 11.5 and it is always borderline on detonation on pump gas with it retard from max timing a couple of degrees and of course has to run race fuel to run the NOS. I think you are kidding yourself if you think you are going to run 12.1 on pump premium aluminum heads or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Lot of interesting responses in here.
Blue printing the engine doesnt do a freaking thing to add power..... Yes its nice to say it was built with precision.. balanced and blue printed. It will add to longevity but as far as a power option it is not... Although I will say my builder says he picks up 15 hp over others because they dont align hone.

Yes you want to deck the block per the piston to get proper quench .. This will help with tiiming and detonation IIRC

You want the best flowing heads you can get... I am not a mopar engine expert at all so I cant tell you what heads those are going to be but they will need to be ported and polished.
The cam is obviously going to be big. An engine is air pump.. More air in more air out more power made.

If it was a Chevy Ls1 383 it wouldnt be an issue to make 500 at all.. quite simple really.. power is made in the heads and those engines can run 7k rpms all day long. SO the valve train would be a good place to put money as well. Valve float isnt going to help you at all. 3" exhaust ( dual) and at least and 850 carb with a dual plane intake.. Eddy rpm air gap port matched and hog out where you can.

EFI or not doesnt really matter I dont think.. its only 500 hp

What planet do you live on? Blue printing absolutely adds power. Deck height is part of blueprinting take a look at the racing rules regarding what the compression can be in a stock class. My 66 Hemi car is a balanced and blueprinted engine built to STOCK N.H.R.A. specs and the only other things they allow beyond factory stock are headers and a cam that must be stock lift but can be any duration and lobe seperation you want. You can run any rear end gear as long as it fits in the stock factory housing and 9" cheater slicks other than that it has to be all stock including no head work. It will run high 10s which is no surprise as they were back in the 60s with the same set up. The h.p. is about 600 vs. the stock 425 but of course the 600 is at a higher rpm than the factory stock rating. Regardless where do you think all of the additional h.p. cam from? It did not all come from just the headers and the limited cam allowed.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Blue printing the engine doesnt do a freaking thing to add power.....

WRONG. It's all dependent on what specs you blueprint to. You can disassemble almost any Chrysler engine and blueprint it to factory specs and I promise you will add power. Chrysler routinely made blocks that were cast WAY too high for the deck height. Bringing that into spec will certainly add power through adding compression. Combustion chambers as well were cast big. Blueprinting them to factory spec will add power yet again. Of course, when you are done, you will be on top of what the factory rated the engine, but before, it was down on power.

Now, if you blueprint to a different set of specs, such as I am with my 383, you certainly will add power. Zero deck height, chambers at 80cc maximum, every piston dome equalized. Blueprinting simply means getting something to a designed set of paramaters. And certainly power can be added through blueprinting.

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No way will you get away with pump premium wit 12 compression even with aluminum heads though.

Yes sir. Jim Leroy (IQ52) has done it many times. I think he has run 12.3 on pump gas if I remember correctly. He can tell you all about it. With a dynamic compression ratio of less than 8:1, my engine will not even be border line. The DCR id the biggest factor to pay attention to for pump gas. Anything over about 8.5 and you're sunk.

Oh and I forgot this too......there's a guy over on The Hamb with an early Chrysler Hemi.....I think it's a 354. He has a blueprinted 13.5:1 and runs on pump gas. It's cammed BIG and of course, it's a Hemi. They have way efficient combustion chambers. But it CAN be done. I think he said he does retard the timing on the street.....but it was a really conservative figure. A lot less than you'd think.

 

[Meridian]

What parts did you use?

Specs?

All I can say about a 383 is the experience I have with my own before I swapped it out for the 493. I was able to roast the tires pretty darn good with it in my 69 RR. with a Holley 600 cfm electric choke even. All stock motor 68 block. So I know it's possible to have large power to move the car and maintain drivability. But to get just a wee bit more out of it what heads wold be a good choice? What cam? etc.

Would eddy's power package set up be good? heads, manifold, cam etc all for 2k. Or would s specialy made head be a better investment.

Heres my build:
69 383 .040 over
stock crank/rods
KB flat top piston
eddy aluminum rpm heads miled port job and milled for 11.1 compression (Hughes engines)
Rpm dual plane intake port matched (Hughes engines)
1" carb spacer
850 mighty demon carb
hughes engine cam .563 lift 248/252 @ .050 series htl4852bs
1.5 H.S. rockers

First pulled yielded 414hp @ 5700 and 450tq @ 4200

tuning from here led to 497hp @ 5900 and 480tq @ 4700
I ran this way for years on 91 then went to full strip and now run 110

it is possible to have a 400-450hp streetable with the 383 pretty easy.
little tuning and you can gain lots more. I am still messing with it and it seems to keep giving more ea. time.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Not letting me post my specs for some reason

That's cause voodoo secrets are not allowed.

 

[Meridian]

That's cause voodoo secrets are not allowed.

Ill have to put my mojo on that voodoo...as they say 3rd times a charm...after that my build specs are going into the "top secret" files.

- - - Updated - - -

Scenario:

stock 383 in 70 RR

Customer wants up to 500 HP with out stroker kit would be happy with 400-450
Has headers
I suggest EFI
Needs to run on 91 octane or less
Needs torque - Aluminum heads? Which ones?
Needs to fit under hood with factory air grabber
Needs to be able to drive state to state smoothly


What are the suggestions to get close to this goal?

Cam selection?
Heads?
Manifold with carb? Or EFI?

69 383 0.40 over
stock crank and rods
eddy aluminum heads miled port and milled for 11.1 compression (Hughes engines)
eddy rpm port matched intake (Hughes)
cam .563 248/[email protected] (Hughes)
KB flat top pistons
1.5 H.S. rockers

first pull was 414hp @ 5700 and 450tq @ 4200

tuning yielded 497hp @ 5900 and 480tq @ 4700
I ran this way on 91 for years on the street

it's now full strip and runs on 110
the more i tune this motor the better it gets...great motor.

400-450 is easy to do for the street, using aluminum heads and keeping it very streetable.

 

[IQ52]

RUSTYROBRATROD,

She was only 11.9:1 compression, .160" quench, 906 heads, 40 degrees total timing with the distributor locked! Not a hint of detonation even at 3000 rpm w/full load, full throttle.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Oh yeah, I knew there somethin about it. It didn't have quench. LMAO.

 

[Meep-Meep]

My first question is something that IQ pointed out. "Does the customer know what 500 HP does?" Or if he can burn a set of tires to the ground he won't care what it has. I bet I can take a lot of people for a ride in my very mild 440 Belvedere and they would be happy with the results - and even happier after I sort out the carbs.

To get big HP numbers out of a smaller displacement engine you typically have to rev the crap out of it. And if you want torque put in some 4.56's. I had a couple of good running 383's back in the 80's / 90's but my current nearly stock 440 is everything the first 383 was but with better street manners. The second 383 pushed a 3700 lb car to 12.65 and it maybe made 425 crank HP.

Put a 440 crank in it and tell the world it's a 383.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Put a 440 crank in it and tell the world it's a 383.

To heck with all that. Put a 4.250 crank in it. If yer gonna do it, DO IT. lol

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

My first question is something that IQ pointed out. "Does the customer know what 500 HP does?" Or if he can burn a set of tires to the ground he won't care what it has. I bet I can take a lot of people for a ride in my very mild 440 Belvedere and they would be happy with the results - and even happier after I sort out the carbs.

To get big HP numbers out of a smaller displacement engine you typically have to rev the crap out of it. And if you want torque put in some 4.56's. I had a couple of good running 383's back in the 80's / 90's but my current nearly stock 440 is everything the first 383 was but with better street manners. The second 383 pushed a 3700 lb car to 12.65 and it maybe made 425 crank HP.

Put a 440 crank in it and tell the world it's a 383.

Ok, He is a Chevy guy who's acquired a 70 RR so no he has no real clue of what 500 hp is really like, except the ride I gave him in my 69 RR then he understood,

However he is a weird one and may change his mind and will probably in the end just buy a new engine from some one. He would be happy with 375-425hp under his foot since his 70 gto 400 low volume heads only makes around 340 maybe hp but sounds good doing it. lol

So to say a completely stock 383 would work for him would be a yes. What he needs is good set of heads the right cam and a good street carb. He wants to beat me so bad he is going to spend $15-20k just in paint and body but he is not willing to drop $6k on a build so freshening up his 383 will work he just doesn't understand it yet.

I took a ride in his car and obviously some one had set up the 383 he has to drag, they put on a mopar single plane manifold with a 1050 demon hooker super comps headers, what sounds like a hydraulic thumper cam, aluminum water pump but left the stock heads, I am still trying to find out info on the block it looks like they filed it off clean so don't know what block it is, but the way it ran was like a slug in all gears with no real power band anywhere. I know I can fix this by just going back to stock or upgrading his heads cam and carb just want to know what is a good steerable combo for a 383 for say $2-3k?

On craigslist sacto right now is what looks to be a Tuff dawg 383 for $3800

 

[RustyRatRod]

he is going to spend $15-20k just in paint and body but he is not willing to drop $6k on a build

Textbook definition of a chebbie guy.

 

[Meep-Meep]

To heck with all that. Put a 4.250 crank in it. If yer gonna do it, DO IT. lol

Ah yes, the only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches - and that definitely be more cubic inches!!

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, He is a Chevy guy who's acquired a 70 RR so no he has no real clue of what 500 hp is really like, except the ride I gave him in my 69 RR then he understood,

However he is a weird one and may change his mind and will probably in the end just buy a new engine from some one. He would be happy with 375-425hp under his foot since his 70 gto 400 low volume heads only makes around 340 maybe hp but sounds good doing it. lol

So to say a completely stock 383 would work for him would be a yes. What he needs is good set of heads the right cam and a good street carb. He wants to beat me so bad he is going to spend $15-20k just in paint and body but he is not willing to drop $6k on a build so freshening up his 383 will work he just doesn't understand it yet.

I took a ride in his car and obviously some one had set up the 383 he has to drag, they put on a mopar single plane manifold with a 1050 demon hooker super comps headers, what sounds like a hydraulic thumper cam, aluminum water pump but left the stock heads, I am still trying to find out info on the block it looks like they filed it off clean so don't know what block it is, but the way it ran was like a slug in all gears with no real power band anywhere. I know I can fix this by just going back to stock or upgrading his heads cam and carb just want to know what is a good steerable combo for a 383 for say $2-3k?

On craigslist sacto right now is what looks to be a Tuff dawg 383 for $3800

A Chebby guy huh? Ooooohh, I'm gonna like this one. This is an opportunity for you (and all of us here) to show him what you can do with a MoPar. Meaning what little effort and expense it takes to get great performance. This is not to say he can have 1000 HP and 1200 ft lbs of torque from a stock 8.5:1 engine, but rather put some carefully matched components, good machine work and a properly matched drive train and come up with something that will last and he will enjoy. You can start with the list of stuff he won't need like: Screw in studs, rocker girdles, four bolt mains, find a steel crank, find good rods, search for good production heads, etc.. With any 70 383 (assuming it's original) he has everything he needs as a base for a good performance street engine.

One way to make some great power on the cheap with a 383 is use the classic lumpy 108 deg cam and the CR to match of course. But keep in mind the low end will suffer if you don't gear it properly, and proper gearing means a less than pleasant freeway driving experience. The bennies are two stroke like performance when you hit about 2500 RPM and depending on carb, can easily have 6 - 7K RPM shift points with stock components. And yes, that includes quality stock cast pistons. A combo such as this in a 3700 lb car will roast the tires from a 15 MPH roll in 1st and send you sideways just by mashing the go pedal. I spent the 80's doing just this. I even scared my 69 Chebby 350 Camaro neighbor once when he wanted to go for a ride in my "boat".

 

[RamNBee]

Back to the original premise, a Holley B block Street Dominator will fit with air grabber and will make power. It is a flat single plane that makes numbers like an Eddie RPM. This intake with properly sized carb, good heads, cam and headers should wake it up. Maybe not 500 hp, but fun driver. Years ago, Mopar Muscle made 454.9 hp @6000 rpm and 456.6 lb-ft @ 4800. 850 carb, M-1 intake, Comp XE 285HL cam and Hooker 17/8 headers. Stock stroke and bore.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

His gearing felt like 323's or even 273's it was either a crappy combo on the motor which according to him when he had the oil pan off he could see cross hatches in the cylinder walls so that must have meant recent rebuild lol. There is just such a night and day difference in power that I felt with my 383 all stock with HP stock exhaust manifolds and 906 heads. vs this supposed hopped up 383 in this 70 I know his single pane high rise and probably low gearing and over carb'ed is making it suffer significantly and I keep trying to tell him to just go back to stock everything as a base line but he won't listen just wants to beat me lmao! He has stock heads even if they were worked they are still stock and good as a start.

I could tear it up with my 383 whip my 69 RR all over the place with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle this 70 can barely do a burn out. Not sure if the 275x10 15/ 60's plus the wrong gear gears had much to do with it.

I really want to help him just because a chebby guys has no business owing a 70 RR so at least want to get that motor back to it's original glory. Stubborn chebby guys always no more then us and have to be the smartest guys in the room oh well he can go spend his money I was going to help him for free just cuz it's a mopar!

 

[RustyRatRod]

I always thought that intake was kinda under rated. It's a goodun.

Back to the original premise, a Holley B block Street Dominator will fit with air grabber and will make power. It is a flat single plane that makes numbers like an Eddie RPM. This intake with properly sized carb, good heads, cam and headers should wake it up. Maybe not 500 hp, but fun driver. Years ago, Mopar Muscle made 454.9 hp @6000 rpm and 456.6 lb-ft @ 4800. 850 carb, M-1 intake, Comp XE 285HL cam and Hooker 17/8 headers. Stock stroke and bore.

 

[99ss]

How much power do you expect from blue printing??.... I didnt know Mopar engines were so effed from the factory.
Not my fault Mopar engines had 0 quality control..LOL But yeah I didnt know they were that far off from the factory. Our engines dont have that issue but I dont sell Mopar either...LOL

And guess what I am a Chevy guy and I own a 69 Roadrunner...

This isnt rocekt science at all but again maybe mopar or the aftermarket world doesnt make the parts?

Heads ... real good flowing heads and an intake and carb to feed it. Valvetrain that wont float.
and in the end if a mopar 383 really cant do it comfortably then add cubic inches..

Sometimes I forget I am dealing archaic technology and parts and spome people.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I would guess that an extreme case could see a 25 HP gain from simply blueprinting all of the measurements to proper specs. Possibly more. Especially if you include blueprinting camshaft and distributor timing as well as all carburetor adjustments. That was often a good bit off from what the specs were. Couple that with getting block deck and combustion chambers corrected and it could really add up.

....but I don't think you'd see much if any improvement over what the stock power ratings were. It's just that machining tolerences were such that the actual power output was lower than advertised.

 

[99ss]

Well 25 hp is a bit if power and something I wouldnt expect from simply building it correctly...LOL
But it is what it is... I dont know if Chevy and Ford had the same lack of precision but thats kind of not good...LOL
Glad we've come a long way since then... Now a day they get 325 hp from a v6 with the direct injection technology.

 

[696pack]

I would guess that an extreme case could see a 25 HP gain from simply blueprinting all of the measurements to proper specs. Possibly more. Especially if you include blueprinting camshaft and distributor timing as well as all carburetor adjustments. That was often a good bit off from what the specs were. Couple that with getting block deck and combustion chambers corrected and it could really add up.

....but I don't think you'd see much if any improvement over what the stock power ratings were. It's just that machining tolerences were such that the actual power output was lower than advertised.

That IS part of true blueprinting and you will find that with this you will see much more than 25 h.p. gain.