400 cid Vs. 440 cid

[Iroll65coronet4speed]

Hello,

I am restoring my 65 coronet. The engine was not original and came with a 440 in it. When I tore it apart, I noticed the "ear" on the bottom side of the starter had been broken off. I honestly didn't think much about it but I have a chance to get a 400. I am going to stroke either engine I go with and this will be mostly a street machine.

What is the best engine? I know the 440 gets a lot more stage time and will automatically be a torque monster but is the 400 a nice engine to use as well?

Up to this point, no one around me likes the idea of using the 400 but I have always got good advice from you guys and you deal with all of these engines a lot more then my self and the people around me so what do you think?

I know this is a "B" engine and with that said, what are the major things the will not swap (externally obviously)?

Thanks!

 

[1badgtx]

The engine block of choice for a stroker motor is the 400...Thicker cylinder walls a a shorter stroke makes it the best...This is what i,m gonna use for my new motor...You can get a short block 472 for under 4 grand...
Petty Blue 67 gtx

 

[lewtot184]

put the 440 crank in the 400 for 450 cubes. pistons are easy to come by. some crank work will be needed but nothing major.

 

[brandon64]

put the 440 crank in the 400 for 450 cubes. pistons are easy to come by. some crank work will be needed but nothing major.

I agree, the cheapest way to make HP on a big block mopar. turn the mains down on the 440 crank. everything else will bolt on from the 440 with exception of the intake. a low deck also weighs less, and spins up faster.

 

[67 B-body]

I agree, the cheapest way to make HP on a big block mopar. turn the mains down on the 440 crank. everything else will bolt on from the 440 with exception of the intake. a low deck also weighs less, and spins up faster.

It spins up faster? Seems to me, all things would be the same once you put the 440 crank into the low deck block..... Right?
The stroke is now the same between the two, and if the speed of rev is based on crankshaft throw, I see no gain in that aspect.
You do however get a larger bore and thats why you can get the Cubes with the low deck / 440 crank combo.
I personaly didn't think it was worth doing..... I built the standard stroke 440 and have a whole lot of POWER!!! I drive it on the street too!!!:VB toast:

 

[Meep-Meep]

The 440 crank in a 400 block using the 440 rod is exactly like building a slightly overbored 440 in a low deck package with the exception of one thing. In order to balance the new assembly with the much lighter pistons it's advised that the crank counterweights be cut down to 7.25". Also the less overall mass will allow the engine to rev quicker. The lighter reciprocating weight will also mean less stress on everything. Personally, if you have access to a good rebuildable 440 core I'd just build that. The 451 is a great combo but the extra crank work will cost more.

 

[383man]

Nothing wrong with using a 400. As was said its a strong block and you can tell everyone its a 383 ! Now I used a 440 to get my 493 combo but thats because they dont make a crossram for the 400 low block and I may go back to a crossram later in my 63. Both will work but the 400 is a good block. Ron

 

[Iroll65coronet4speed]

Man.. you guys have been so helpful! The idea of putting my 440 crank in the 400 was something I never thought of! I was going to stroke the 440 but not since I can use the 440 crank and save a ton of money, I am going to use that money to get a set of aluminum heads. I lucked out because my crank is forged. I was also reading that when you machine down the mains on an off set which will give you even more throw on the rod and buy a rod that stays at or below the deck.

Honestly, this will be my first true engine build and I am a little intimated bymixing parts like this on my first build but I just hate that my 440 block has that broken piece. When you look at the machined blocks on 440 source, they say the 400 blocks are getting harder and harder to find so if noting else, I can keep the block for a future build right?

What do you guys think.... off set machine the mains or use the same center line that is there. I know you have to watch out for the oil passages when doing the off set grind.

 

[Iroll65coronet4speed]

One more thing.... as you can see in this picture, this is the reason that started the whole idea of using a different block. The 400 is going to be free other then the shipping so I am really having a hard time with this decision. I guess this 440 can be built like this but I know it is like this and it kills me! It is a shame that this block is broken like this.

 

[Cranky]

The engine block of choice for a stroker motor is the 400...Thicker cylinder walls a a shorter stroke makes it the best...This is what i,m gonna use for my new motor...You can get a short block 472 for under 4 grand...
Petty Blue 67 gtx

I've never found the cylinder walls to be thicker in a 400 but they are shorter in the 400 and that makes them more ridged.

It spins up faster? Seems to me, all things would be the same once you put the 440 crank into the low deck block..... Right?
The stroke is now the same between the two, and if the speed of rev is based on crankshaft throw, I see no gain in that aspect.
You do however get a larger bore and thats why you can get the Cubes with the low deck / 440 crank combo.
I personaly didn't think it was worth doing..... I built the standard stroke 440 and have a whole lot of POWER!!! I drive it on the street too!!!:VB toast:

Yup, a 440 crank in a 400 block will give you the same piston speed and rev quality...maybe a bit faster due to a lighter piston but you can throw in light pistons in either engine. Also, a bit larger bore helps unshroud the valves some which helps a bit with the flow near the walls.

One more thing.... as you can see in this picture, this is the reason that started the whole idea of using a different block. The 400 is going to be free other then the shipping so I am really having a hard time with this decision. I guess this 440 can be built like this but I know it is like this and it kills me! It is a shame that this block is broken like this.

A good machinist/welder can fix that. I've seen them 'fixed' from the factory for the same thing but either a casting flaw or damaged in production. You can usually tell by the way it's been machined. They look like a regular machining operation only there's brass weld on it. Also, you are not offset machining the mains for the extra stroke...it's the rod journals that you are offset machining and generally, you offset machine them to the 2.200 bearing size (GM size) and it'll produce about 470+ cubes depending on bore finish size. Had a 440 that was done that way and ran high 9's in a 71 Duster. Another option that's cheaper is to use a stock stroke 383/400 stroke but use a 440 length rod. The longer rod gives a better rod ratio and takes more of the side loads off the walls. You can spool that combo up higher (way to make a smaller engine think it's bigger is to spool up more rpm) and a short stroke engine will have less piston speed than a long stroke engine will at the same rpm.

 

[67 B-body]

I've never found the cylinder walls to be thicker in a 400 but they are shorter in the 400 and that makes them more ridged.

Yup, a 440 crank in a 400 block will give you the same piston speed and rev quality...maybe a bit faster due to a lighter piston but you can throw in light pistons in either engine. Also, a bit larger bore helps unshroud the valves some which helps a bit with the flow near the walls.

A good machinist/welder can fix that. I've seen them 'fixed' from the factory for the same thing but either a casting flaw or damaged in production. You can usually tell by the way it's been machined. They look like a regular machining operation only there's brass weld on it. Also, you are not offset machining the mains for the extra stroke...it's the rod journals that you are offset machining and generally, you offset machine them to the 2.200 bearing size (GM size) and it'll produce about 470+ cubes depending on bore finish size. Had a 440 that was done that way and ran high 9's in a 71 Duster. Another option that's cheaper is to use a stock stroke 383/400 stroke but use a 440 length rod. The longer rod gives a better rod ratio and takes more of the side loads off the walls. You can spool that combo up higher (way to make a smaller engine think it's bigger is to spool up more rpm) and a short stroke engine will have less piston speed than a long stroke engine will at the same rpm.

Kind of what I thought........ If I were to stroke an engine it would be for the "option" to rev higher, and the few cubes it gives.......
I'm still a traditionalist though, I'll keep my raised deck and standard stroke. :love4:

 

[Racer99]

Why not just fix the 440 block....im a believer "THERES NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"......if your gonna stroke it then stroke it......the cheapest thing you could do is fix the block......unless you wanna junk it....ill pay freight, and you can ship it to me.....i just fixed a block that both bottom ears were broke off, if your wanting a rpm motor build big bore short stroke, with light internals....if it were me id get a 4 1/8 crank in the 440 & build a 512.....and gear it right and use the torque of the big cubes....just my own opinion

 

[scotts74birds]

Great thread! Lots of info.

 

[Ron 73]

This IS a great thread, I was told to put a 440 crank in a 400 there had to be some machine work done to the 400 block as well as the crank. If im understanding right thats wrong, just the crank, sounds like a interesting build, Good luck, hope you'll update what all you do with this especially IF you go with the 400...

 

[terzmo]

400 can be stroked to 512. Block is narrower for more room..lighter a bit also. Friend had a 451 stroker in a 70 charger..full interior and ran 12.4's consistently. Not too shabby

 

[383man]

If you do decide to fix the 440 block you can use the stock crank or stroke it. I went with the 4.15 crank in my 440 block for 493 cubes. It has gobbs of torque. I use the Indy EZ heads and in full street trim at 3700 lbs it has pushed my 63 to 10.70's.
I used to run a 906 headed 440 that pushed my 63 to a best of 11.49. So just the basic 440 can be built to put you in the 11's if you go that way. It may be cheaper then the 400 way. Ron

 

[Cranky]

400 can be stroked to 512. Block is narrower for more room..lighter a bit also. Friend had a 451 stroker in a 70 charger..full interior and ran 12.4's consistently. Not too shabby

It's not too hard to make power these days. A buddy and I 'played' with his 72 318 Demon and got it running 13.50 with a stock short block, 360 ported heads (yeah, lowered compression even more lol). It mostly had left over parts on it and nothing was custom....it did have lots of gear however.

 

[scotts74birds]

I had 512 in mind! Can I do that with all the free 400 blocks laying around here in Michigan? I've had two folks offer me them for free in the last 3 months just to get them out of the way. I wanted a 512, but thought I'd need a 440 to start with. If I can do it with 400 blocks, then I will start collecting these! Dime-a-dozen around here!

 

[69clone]

I had 512 in mind! Can I do that with all the free 400 blocks laying around here in Michigan? I've had two folks offer me them for free in the last 3 months just to get them out of the way. I wanted a 512, but thought I'd need a 440 to start with. If I can do it with 400 blocks, then I will start collecting these! Dime-a-dozen around here!

Send some my way... The few I do see for sale around here aren't cheap...

 

[moperformance]

Nothing wrong with using a 400. As was said its a strong block and you can tell everyone its a 383 ! Now I used a 440 to get my 493 combo but thats because they dont make a crossram for the 400 low block and I may go back to a crossram later in my 63. Both will work but the 400 is a good block. Ron

FYI,STR15 for a low block