440 Internal or External Balanced

[Chukar]

If I may, my own stupid question:
There is no difference in the mounting point on the snout of a forged vs. cast crank in a 440
for where the balancer is mounted, correct?
In other words, can someone can install a balancer for an externally-balanced crank onto a forged
crank snout?

I don’t know for sure
But I think so. Yes

 

[Chukar]

Look through these balancers closely. There are subtle differences between a couple but you should be able to identify yours and tell by the description what you have.
My balancer is the split ring type
(Thanks For Pics)
Motor has heavy/six-pack rods
Just swap balancer?
http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm

 

[Chukar]

Buy a $20 bore scope camera off Amazon an look thru the oil pan drain plug hole. Cast crank; thin parting line, square edges on the counter weights. Forged crank; rough 3/8” wide parting line, rounded edges on the counter weights.
Doug

I’ll send you some pics
Help me identify please

 

[1 Wild R/T]

A Small block balancer with fit a big block, internal, external, same deal.... It all needs to be balanced together.... Back in the 90's it was popular to remove the Sixpack rods cause they are so heavy they create more stress then the extra mass adds in strength plus it slows the engines ability to rev.... But to use the Sixpack damper to keep the OE look... If you find one of those balancers the inertia ring will be drilled to zero balance it....

Also 72-73 Motorhome 440's will have the Sixpack rods without the Sixpack damper cause they use lighter pistons that don't need the extra weight..

 

[moparedtn]

I guess what I'm getting at is one can't use the type of harmonic balancer installed on a given engine
to identify whether the crank is cast or forged if you weren't the one who installed it to begin with,
right?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I guess what I'm getting at is one can't use the type of harmonic balancer installed on a given engine
to identify whether the crank is cast or forged if you weren't the one who installed it to begin with,
right?

All the damper tells you is "it has one...."

Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to measure parts & spin the crank in a balancer....

 

[moparedtn]

All the damper tells you is "it has one...."

Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to measure parts & spin the crank in a balancer....

Wish to heck I knew about mine....

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Engine balance problems will be present whether the car is moving or sitting still... Typically they are very RPM critical... So if the car vibrates/shakes at a certain engine RPM regardless of whether it's in gear or not, chances are you have a balance problem.... If the vibration is only present in gear keep looking....

Stock engines aren't individually balanced, they are assembled with components in a known "range" and rarely does/did an OE engine show a significant balance concern....

Minor balance issues rarely cause concern, hell while running oil caught up in the spinning components is a greater imbalance than guys typically grind off rods to equalize the balance....

OE engines are likely within an ounce.... High Performance shops have equipment that can get you within a gram.... There are 28 grams in an ounce, (And 32 ounces in a quart) is being within a gram really worth the effort? Again how much oil is caught up in the spinning crank/rods?

 

[BSB67]

.... There are 28 grams in an ounce, (And 32 ounces in a quart) ......

Are you just messing with us?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Are you just messing with us?

I was wondering if anyone would notice...

 

[BSB67]

It did make me laugh. I was 99% sure you were testing us.

 

[Chukar]

I’ll send you some pics
Help me identify please

Some pics

 

[Chukar]

If you have a heavy "sixpack" rod motor, and a neutral balanced balancer, and no weight on the converter or flexplate.... yes that is your vibration problem.

 

[33 IMP]

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Show a side shot of the rods, cant see if they are the heavy rods or not. That is a steel crank, and it looks like a neutral balancer. Any weights on the inside of the balancer? (The rods that say LY on them are standard weight).
Edit: looked at the first piston pic again . Those ARE the heavy rods. If you dont find any added-on weights on the balancer and converter, i think that is your problem ( i have no way of knowing the weight of your pistons.)

 

[dvw]

Let's see a picture of the front of the converter. Also a picture of the flex plate if it's not factory. Did you measure how far down the piston is below the deck? This will be helpful for your compression question. If you are running factory heads on pump gas stay at about 9.5-1. Definately the incorrect balancer for the heavy rods.
Doug

 

[Chukar]

Show a side shot of the rods, cant see if they are the heavy rods or not. That is a steel crank, and it looks like a neutral balancer. Any weights on the inside of the balancer? (The rods that say LY on them are standard weight).
Edit: looked at the first piston pic again . Those ARE the heavy rods. If you dont find any added-on weights on the balancer and converter, i think that is your problem ( i have no way of knowing the weight of your pistons.)

Sorry not a great pic of rods. A friend that looked at them said same as you. They are heavy rods
Confidant that the balancer is a neutral balancer thanks to an earlier post by khryslerkid. No weights
I have a part number from the Sealed Power pistons
Thanks for your help

 

[Chukar]

Let's see a picture of the front of the converter. Also a picture of the flex plate if it's not factory. Did you measure how far down the piston is below the deck? This will be helpful for your compression question. If you are running factory heads on pump gas stay at about 9.5-1. Definately the incorrect balancer for the heavy rods.
Doug

I don’t have a pic of front of TCI converter but no weights and I believe it is a stock flex plate. 906 heads that have some polishing/porting 88cc. Didn’t measure piston/deck height
I have a part number from the Sealed Power pistons
Thanks For Help

 

[dvw]

Pro

I don’t have a pic of front of TCI converter but no weights and I believe it is a stock flex plate. 906 heads that have some polishing/porting 88cc. Didn’t measure piston/deck height
I have a part number from the Sealed Power pistons
Thanks For Help

The easiest thing would be swap in a set of LY factory rods or a set of aftermarket rods. I'm assuming you are trying to stay on budget. Balance would be close enough then. Measure the compression. Get the part number from the converter.Then come up with a plan. Are you planning on cam swap? How did it run aside from the vibration?
Doug

 

[Chukar]

All the damper tells you is "it has one...."

Unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to measure parts & spin the crank in a balancer....

Thanks for help. Fairly sure I have the wrong dampener For heavy rods/crank setup

 

[Chukar]

Pro

The easiest thing would be swap in a set of LY factory rods or a set of aftermarket rods. I'm assuming you are trying to stay on budget. Balance would be close enough then. Measure the compression. Get the part number from the converter.Then come up with a plan. Are you planning on cam swap? How did it run aside from the vibration?
Doug

I have the part number for the converter and know what it is. 2400 to 2600 rpm stall. Haven’t pulled cam yet but thinking it is an comp cam. Part of a kit maybe... The rocker arms are a adjustable roller rocker type Duel spring valve springs. Budget always the issue but going to do it right while I’m here too. I would like your input on build as I get a lil further along
Thanks