440 mopar rods

[340runner]

It's possible to get lots of torque from a small block also.....

And dead hooked with 14-32's slicks with a 440 but with low pressure on 10" wide wheels to soften the 'hook' and ran in the 10's at the track. The tires expanded on the top end and increased the mph and ran good

What rear end and trans combo was that in?

I mean, if its cheaper and I can get my desired torque and horsepower while not wringing the engine for all it has to give, and be at least a little bit reliable id be willing to hear options

I just don't want to have to push the small block to the power limits of the 360 block, everywhere I've looked looks like 600hp is pushing it hard

I know while you need a good block, 600hp in a 440 is definitely possible and can be more reliable

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Well, do you have experience on 408 strokers? What do you think of them on torquiness as opposed to a big block 440 built as I was saying

Nope, never built one, and sadly...the only small block we stroked was a Ford 351 to 396. That was worth every penny, even though I am not much of a Ford fan.Lol
I have never, regretted stroking a engine as we have a 512, 526 and a 542. More comparable to what your wanting we currently have 2 440s that are pretty streetable. One has edelbrock heads and est. around 575 hp or so, the other has trick flow heads and has about 100hp more (less streetable). Those est numbers are compared to one we did dyno. We took the e street 440 on a 240 mile cruise and it got about 14 mpg. One of my friends has a 525hp 408 and he says it gets maybe 8 mpg on a good day. Imho Bigger engines just make better street engines. The 408 with some speedmaster heads on it isn't likely to be closely comparable to a 440. But it's less weight on the nose which will help with traction, and easier are parts. Doing a 408 your still looking at machining cost identical to a 440. Likely boring, align honing and decking.

 

[340runner]

Nope, never built one, and sadly...the only small block we stroked was a Ford 351 to 396. That was worth every penny, even though it was not a mopar.Lol
I have never, regretted stroking a engine as we have a 512, 526 and a 542. More comparable to what your wanting we currently have 2 440s that are pretty streetable. One has edelbrock heads and about est. around 575 hp or so, the other has trick flow heads and has about 100hp more (less streetable). Those est numbers are compared to one we did dyno. We took the e street 440 on a 240 mile cruise and it got about 14 mpg. One of my friends has a 525hp 408 and he says it gets maybe 8 mpg on a good day. Imho Bigger engines just make better street engines. The 408 with some speedmaster heads on it isn't likely to be closely comparable to a 440. But it's less weight on the nose which will help with traction, and easier are parts. Doing a 408 your still looking at machining cost identical to a 440. Likely boring, align honing and decking.

Well in that case honestly the 440 sounds like the way, as i can get a cheaper crank, cheaper/stock rods, pistons and work on the heads and do a valve job myself with some help, and detail and clean up the casting imperfections which you say should work out decent until I save for a set of either eddy's or tricks

Should I be able to use my 750 double pumper on a decent 440, or would it be too little carb for the engine.

Really the only thing where I'd be saving on the small block money by sticking with the pulley setup, intake and headers, but i think I can offset that on the side of the 440 with finding a more complete one like I was saying from a motorhome or a car, and i could reuse the small block intake.

Lastly, i know it's not original to the car so you guys might scoff, but a big block filling up those fender wells, I think it looks better

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Well in that case honestly the 440 sounds like the way, as i can get a cheaper crank, cheaper/stock rods, pistons and work on the heads and do a valve job myself with some help, and detail and clean up the casting imperfections which you say should work out decent until I save for a set of either eddy's or tricks

Should I be able to use my 750 double pumper on a decent 440, or would it be too little carb for the engine.

Really the only thing where I'd be saving on the small block money by sticking with the pulley setup, intake and headers, but i think I can offset that on the side of the 440 with finding a more complete one like I was saying from a motorhome or a car, and i could reuse the small block intake.

Lastly, i know it's not original to the car so you guys might scoff, but a big block filling up those fender wells, I think it looks better

You can run a 750 for a while. 850 likely needed down the road. Depends on the build really.
The later 452 heads are not a bad head to learn how to port. Unlike other heads, most any grinding improves flow. Or pick up some that someone else has done a bunch of work on, and someone else dropped money into. You really need to talk to a machine shop before you make plans. That way you can make a budget. You certainly could build a 440 w iron heads for now..and do the aluminum heads later. Trick flows are NICE. Crank up the torsion bars for the extra weight. Bb fit good in that era of cars at least and a bb would keep your car on the road. Because almost no parts will being going on it until your ready for the swap, unlike a 408. But, all the guys are right about your budget being a challenge. Your going to need to be resourceful! The little things add up.

 

[340runner]

You can run a 750 for a while. 850 likely needed down the road. Depends on the build really.
The later 452 heads are not a bad head to learn how to port. Unlike other heads, most any grinding improves flow. Or pick up some that someone else has done a bunch of work on, and someone else dropped money into. You really need to talk to a machine shop before you make plans. That way you can make a budget. You certainly could build a 440 w iron heads for now..and do the aluminum heads later. Trick flows are NICE. Crank up the torsion bars for the extra weight. Bb fit good in that era of cars at least and a bb would keep your car on the road. Because almost no parts will being going on it until your ready for the swap, unlike a 408. But, all the guys are right about your budget being a challenge. Your going to need to be resourceful! The little things add up.

Yeah, it's going to be a lot of perusing marketplace, but the budget also kind of works better for me with the big block as it doesn't use much from the engine I have now so it can sit for a while

 

[padam]

So sounds like around my build goals I should be somewhat good, just don't clutch dump at 6k rpm making peak torque onto some slicks that dead hook and expect it to be peachy afterwards

But mama, that’s where the fun is.

 

[71 Runner]

Just so you have some idea of cost stroking the 440 down the road. This is what my 440/505 cost me. It’s going in my 71RR, was a 340/727/8 3/4-3.23 car. I gave them a disassembled 71 440 and asked them what they could use from the boxes of parts. He told me the only thing worth saving was the stock bore block. He said it would cost more in machine work and labor cost than just getting a completed set of aluminum heads!

There is something to be said about costing you less money in the long run by just doing it right the first time! That’s just my two cents worth anyway.

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

I absolutely love the 452 heads that came on late model 440's. The whole issue with any 440 head OEM or aftermarket head is the pushrod pinch in the intake ports.

Since I cut them flush with the port wall, epoxy, and use offset rockers I can make a really excellent flowing head for my uses with very little effort.

Here's a link for Molnar Technologies connecting rods that I sell below. If you're going to put good money into an engine there is no way I would use an OEM rod at the power

level you're wanting to achieve.

FOR SALE - Molnar Technologies 6.76" 4340 H-Beam Wedge Stock Replacement Connecting Rods - 852 Grams

Using a modern connecting rods and lighter pistons will allow for much faster accelerating engine rpm per second over a older style cmponets.

Tom

 

[340runner]

I absolutely love the 452 heads that come on late model 440's. The whole issue with any 440 head OEM or aftermarket head is the pushrod pinch in the intake ports.

Since I cut them flush with the port wall, epoxy, and use offset rockers I can make a really excellent flowing head for my uses with very little effort.

Here's a link for Molnar Technologies connecting rods that I sell below. If you're going to put good money into an engine there is no way I would use an OEM rod at the power

level you are wanting to achieve.

FOR SALE - Molnar Technologies 6.76" 4340 H-Beam Wedge Stock Replacement Connecting Rods - 852 Grams

Using a modern connecting rods and lighter pistons will allow for much faster accelerating engine rpm per second over a older style cmponets.

Tom

Well, would you say it's a hard process to cut down the port flush, and then epoxy it? I'm willing to put in sweat equity to make things happen, I'm not opposed to while it may make more economical sense considering time to buy a new set of heads to work on my own and make them flow good enough, then later down the road buy heads.
I can probably swing the rods, my budget isn't hard and fast, it mostly just dictates how quickly I can get this thing built.

Keep in mind this is going to be a kind of secondary thing, I'm still trying to upgrade suspension and tires as a primary thing, why have the power if I can't put it down well

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Well, would you say it's a hard process to cut down the port flush, and then epoxy it?

It is in no way a hard process. It just takes time, effort, and attention to detail. If you look around on here you'll see several post I've made in the past of the process and photos on more than one thread. I never remove any metal from the floor and I straighten out and raise the roof in the intake port as well. However you will need a set of offset intake rockers to go this route.

If you read through this thread you'll see several post I made that have photos.

Real World Flow Differences 2.08"/ 1.74" Valves vs 2.14"/ 1.81" Valves " Pictures Added"

Tom

 

[340runner]

It is in no way a hard process. It just takes time, effort, and attention to detail. If you look around on here you'll see several post I've made in the past of the process and photos on more than one thread. I never remove any metal from the floor and I straighten out and raise the roof in the intake port as well. However you will need a set of offset intake rockers to go this route.

Tom

I was planning to get cheapo speedmaster roller rockers anyways so I don't reuse the old stamped rockers, and this way I can also set lash. I'll just get them with offset when I plan

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

I was planning to get cheapo speedmaster roller rockers anyways so I don't reuse the old stamped rockers, and this way I can also set lash. I'll just get them with offset when I plan

Personally I would stay away from Speedmaster rocker arms and they don't sell what you would need to do the heads like mine.

I use the 1.5 ratio blue intake rockers that were offer by Mopar Performance, and made by Crane many years ago. They have a .450" offset.

Not sure who offers something like this currently, but you won't need or want a .600" offset like some of the Indy Cylinder heads use.

Then I use the no longer available Crane Gold rockers on the exhaust, but any rocker works on the exhaust.

Tom

 

[PsyOps]

You are 16-yrs old and ready for more power in your '71. I completely understand your need for speed. Have you ever ridden in a 500 or 600 hp car? If not, why do you think you want/need that much hp? What is your current engine making now? Is this from a dyno session, using weight/ET math, or other method? Say for example you are at 250 hp currently. Maybe you'd be happy with 200+ more hp at something like 465? If so, maybe the best solution is a 408 stroker short or long block already done. All you'd have to swap are the peripherals you already have and away you go. Consider something like: Chrysler Compatible Small Blocks - 408 c.i. or any one of a number of Mopar engine builders that could do something similar. Lastly, I strongly encourage you to do some research before committing to any parts/pieces. There are a number of publications to help educate yourself on what goes with what so you aren't doing things willy-nilly. We will be interested on what you decide.

 

[340runner]

You are 16-yrs old and ready for more power in your '71. I completely understand your need for speed. Have you ever ridden in a 500 or 600 hp car? If not, why do you think you want/need that much hp? What is your current engine making now? Is this from a dyno session, using weight/ET math, or other method? Say for example you are at 250 hp currently. Maybe you'd be happy with 200+ more hp at something like 465? If so, maybe the best solution is a 408 stroker short or long block already done. All you'd have to swap are the peripherals you already have and away you go. Consider something like: Chrysler Compatible Small Blocks - 408 c.i. or any one of a number of Mopar engine builders that could do something similar. Lastly, I strongly encourage you to do some research before committing to any parts/pieces. There are a number of publications to help educate yourself on what goes with what so you aren't doing things willy-nilly. We will be interested on what you decide.

Well, I'm not sure what I'm at currently exactly, but I've been in cars of that power range, specifically my family friends 500ish whp LS1 trans am thats a low 11 second car on average and other modern cars around that power range, but I do know that modern cars are a lot smoother and the power just feels "less" i guess.
My other thing is this is id rather just build my own short block over buying a crate if I go the small block stroker route, as since I'm going to save a lot of parts get a ritter block, i think they're around the 3800 price last i checked from hughes. Then I can just stroke it then also throw almost whatever i want at it
I think we've already established 5k is not going to happen so might as well since I have the top end

 

[padam]

I remember when I was 17. Me and my buddy were wanting to build a 340. I looked up pistons in the direct connection catalog, the price was around $40 (IIRC.) I couldn’t figure out if that was per piece or for a set of 8.
I mean, who could possibly afford to spend $320 on just pistons?

 

[451Mopar]

New rods are a pretty easy choice, but need to decide on piston pin size. Several years ago the stock 1.094" pin size limited the choice of off-the-shelf pistons to mostly factory replacement pistons with 5/64 ring packs, and the 0.990" pin there were mor choices of performance pistons. I just took a look, and there is now a better selection of performance pistons in the 1.094" pin size with thinner ring packs, so not as big a deal as it used to be.
If you can afford it, using a stroker kit will likely save money in the long run. Better parts and if using the 2.200" GM rod bearing size, a wider selection of rod bearings.