440 Rebuild

[451Mopar]

Very general, but low end torque is about building cylinder pressure by choosing a cam that works well with your compression ratio (and fuel octane). High end power is airflow and having a cam that operates at that RPM.
You can have a powerful low compression engine at high RPM, but will need a high stall converter because the low torque at low RPM.

 

[IQ52]

Damn it......Okay.... Step-by-step to take a 440 from 404 horsepower to 650 horsepower. It's not as easy as you may have been told and it isn't cheap.

You can follow what I posted by Challenger340 or you can stop along the way on this path to 500-550HP

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/pops-440-is-near-ready-to-dyno.64775/

No short cuts to 500 HP. Here is 530+HP using a 440 crank in a 400 block......

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/400-450-stroker-cheap-parts-lotta-work.484272/

 

[padam]

OP might want to try out a car that makes 400 hp to see how it handles on the street, and then perhaps re-evaluate his HP goal.

 

[66Satellite47]

I repeat, making 500-550 HP takes a lot of work and really good parts combination.
The IQ thread points this out. Making 500 HP with a 440 takes pretty darn good heads, a fairy big cam matched to the CR, RPM range, convertor, rear gears.
OEM Mopar iron heads take a lot of work to get them to flow well. I did all my own porting on 906 & 915 heads for my bracket motors. Many hours. My home porting matched up well with one of my Mopar guys that had a flow bench. So I knew I was in the ball park. Cam selection is still really tough.
IQ's 400/450 with the stock 400 rods is similar to my first 400/451 build with the low deck rods. They worked great.
For a street car, I'd be happy at a real 400 HP. A 500 HP car gets to be interesting to drive.

 

[451Mopar]

I recall the (I think around 2000-2002?) Hot Rod / Mopar Muscle 500+ HP 440 that was built using the Speed Pro flat tops, The new for then Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, RPM intake, and a Comp Cams Extreme Energy 275 HL cam?
At the time that was the basis of several articles on the engine where some different cams and intakes were tried also.
Not a difficult build at all, but lighter pistons would have been nice.

 

[496 polara]

Listen to these ( IQ52 & Challenger 340) guys, they have done it all and have given you results.

The 750 vacuum secondary is perfect for your setup. I don't know anyone with a performance 440 that went faster with a 650 cfm carb compared to a 750.

Your old stall converter with a peg leg diff and 2.71 gears should have done nothing but spin. Don't forget traction as a part of your build. HP & TQ IS MEANINGLESS IF YOU CAN'T PUT TO THE GROUND.

Consider taking your old stall converter to a reputable converter company and having it freshened and the stall speed adjusted AFTER you have a dyno sheet for your motor.

 

[451Mopar]

I used a Holley Ultra Street Avenger 770 cfm carb on my 505" stroker 440 before going to EFI.
It worked good. It had some changes made (rear jet extensions, notched float) and tuning (Jets, Power valves, vac sec spring). I don't think the accelerator pump cam or discharge nozzle was changed.

Found a Motor Trend 440 engine build 537 HP. Pretty much same type of build that has been done for the last 20+ years (When the Edelbrock RPM heads were released, around 2000?)
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/

About 20 years before that (1980's?) the Bill Bagshaw 511 HP 440 type build was pretty common. Used the Mopar 292 duration 0.509" lift cam, and ported big valve (I think 2.14"/1.81") iron heads. Don't recall if 906 or 452 castings, either will work

 

[MoparHusker]

Thank you again for all of the feedback. Is taking a little time to read through all of the threads.

How much horsepower is too much?

When I was 19 (many years ago), I had the opportunity to ride in a friend of a friend’s car, 1963 Chevy II Nova with a blown, balanced and blueprinted 350 in it, putting out 750 HP. We were headed down the street and I was in the back seat. I scooted forward, because I wanted to check things out. He hit the gas and I was planted in the seat and it seemed like it was never going to let up. Pretty exhilarating ride. Seemed to behave pretty well on the street from what I remember and it was definitely a blast to ride in.

A number of years ago when I started thinking about what I wanted to do to the car I was thinking I wanted 650-700 HP. It would require much more money and changing other stuff, so I dialed back what I was going to shoot for to the 500-550 HP range. It is a 69 440, so was rated at 350 HP, but realistically was what, 330 HP? So only targeting 400 HP, an increase of 50 to 70 HP over stock? No use of wasting my time, energy or money for so little gain. If I am going to spend the time and money, it is going to be a significant enough change to make it worth my time and hard earned money I am spending.

After pulling up some sound clips of the Comp ams I am considering and letting my wife listen to them, her only request was that it is quiet enough inside the car to have a conversation.

I can see it makes a big difference to make sure you get all of the parts matched up, so they work well together.

The torque converter is one thing I am still cloudy on. I have to make sure it is matched correctly to the cam. I have already bought the near stock converter to put in the car. I will have to call the place I bought it from to see what the stall is. Comp Cams guy recommended the XE262H cam, but if I can I will bump it up to theXE268H. I thin the 2800 stall converter I put in there years ago was a Turbo Action. Just was not happy with it. Unfortunately I don’t have a bunch of friends with muscle cars around here where I could go for a ride to see how there torque converters feel when cruising around town. That would give me a higher comfort level.

I got the heads off last night. Lifters actually look to be in good shape, but I will be replacing them. There is a little ridge at the top of the cylinders. My finely tuned finger can’t measure it, so don’t know for sure what it will take. I am thinking around .040 to clean it up, but that is a spitball guess.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[Curiousyellow71]

It sounds like you want a quiet, smooth running engine that makes torque for a heavy car with high gears and a low stall.. Bigger displacement is better for your goals. Spend your money on a stroker kit. Build a 512. From what you have described the only extra cost would be the new crank and a rod upgrade.
Strokers are where these threads usually end up...
We've been running one for 27 years now. No regrets.

 

[66Satellite47]

Husker, I had a few 8 3/4" 3800 Turbo Action convertors in my bracket cars and they did not act like a slipping clutch. My '66 Satellite had a 10" TA convertor, the "tight" version. It was behind a 500" fairly mild build, 500 dyno HP. It drove just great on the street.
My bet is that .030 will clean that block, Mopar blocks don't wear much.
The cam "sound" is a poor indicator for the choice. The configuration of the exhaust system and mostly the muffler selection is what determines the sound in the cabin.

 

[MoparHusker]

I like the sound of the cam. I think the truck in the sound clip may have had straight pipes, because it was pretty loud.

Yes, I will have some decent mufflers on the car to make sure the interior is somewhat manageable. She does not like riding in my truck as the flow masters are a little loud and she does not like the “roaring” noise.

I want an engine that has a good sound that is not too radical. I want it to have the power there if I want to go out and have some fun driving it. It should run smoothly. I was pretty amazed in the Chevy from my previous post, just how smooth the engine ran, even at 8,000 or so rpms we went up to. Yes, needs to have good torque and a lower stall on the converter. The rear will be a 3.23 Suregrip 489.

It is fun and there is a lot to learn.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If you are chasing a idle "sound" keep in mind when watching videos a cam from a smaller engine installed in a larger engine will lope less and peak power will be lower. The cam will sound totally different. A cam in a small block that lopes will purr in a big block. Same thing going from a 440 to a 500+. Again for street manners stroker engines are hard to beat.

 

[padam]

I like the sound of the cam. I think the truck in the sound clip may have had straight pipes, because it was pretty loud.

Yes, I will have some decent mufflers on the car to make sure the interior is somewhat manageable. She does not like riding in my truck as the flow masters are a little loud and she does not like the “roaring” noise.

I want an engine that has a good sound that is not too radical. I want it to have the power there if I want to go out and have some fun driving it. It should run smoothly. I was pretty amazed in the Chevy from my previous post, just how smooth the engine ran, even at 8,000 or so rpms we went up to. Yes, needs to have good torque and a lower stall on the converter. The rear will be a 3.23 Suregrip 489.

It is fun and there is a lot to learn.

Supercharged sbc in a light car is going to be hard to duplicate with a na big block b body.

 

[66Satellite47]

I was never concerned about "sound". I was mostly a drag racer, open headers. Although back in the day my buddy told me he could always tell my car from across the pits. He said it had the same crack sound as a Hemi. I had a pretty big flat tappet cam and 2" headers.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

I am not familiar with Arnold's. Ask them if they have a Honing plate for a bb mopar before you take your engine to them. If they do great. If they don't I would find a different shop.

 

[MoparHusker]

Engine was dropped off at the machine shop this morning. And so, the fun begins.

Thanks again for all of the input and suggestions!

 

[MoparHusker]

Sounds like the machine shop might be able to get moving on my block sooner than I thought. At least he said I should get some parts ordered. I am not sure if he was saying that, because he is getting to it soon or if he thinks it is going to take me a while to get the parts.

Anyway, first up is cam bearings. I want to go for the Clevite SH2152S. It looks like the soonest ship date I see is from Jegs on 2/21/2022. Is this the best bearing for my build? Is it worth waiting if I have to wait for a month? If the machine shop wants/needs them sooner, does anyone have a secret site that has them in stock? If not available soon enough, what is the next best option, manufacturer and part number?

Bolts, get a complete set or just specific areas. I was planning on head bolts and rod bolts. Also saw where someone said you can reuse your main bolts, but if you are upping HP, you may want to to replace them as well. Thoughts? I am planning on ARP for all those bolts:
Connecting rod bolts - ARP-145-6002
Head bolts - ARP-145-3606
Main bolts - ARP-140-5002
Are there other bolts that really need to be replaced?

Rear main seal, I want to get the Mancini Racing Billet Rear Main Seal kit, Item #: MRE223.

Cam, Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 21-222-4 camshaft, grind number CRB XE262H-10.

Main and rod bearings, Clevite, but need to know what size to order once I talk to the machinist.

Pistons? Unscientific down in the hole measurement was .056 to .065. I really like the Speed Pro pistons, but lots to consider. I was thinking of having the heads milled to .050. I really do not want to zero deck it, you can’t put back on after you have removed it. Edelbrock (planning on Performer RPM heads, but not sure on cc yet), guy suggested the six pack pistons to get them further up in the hole. May still not get to the sweet spot on the quench. Also must consider the weight difference compared to stock. Do I have to get the crank balanced? Does it add too much to the rotating mass and make it harder on the engine and rob horsepower? Would like to be in 10.1 to 10.5 range and be able to run on pump gas. Do I need to have the rods done and pistons for them to balance the crank? Do I need the pistons for the machinist to mount up, so he can truly tell how much to mill from the deck? Flat top pistons or flat tops with valve reliefs? Is .050 the ideal for quench? If so, with a .039 head gasket, pistons can only be .011 down in the hole. So many factors to have to keep straight.

As always, your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
Allan

 

[Outlawd]

Good ol Arnold Motor Supply I used to live close to one...thats an Iowa thing, they got great machine shops. Which location are you using?

 

[MoparHusker]

Good ol Arnold Motor Supply I used to live close to one...thats an Iowa thing, they got great machine shops. Which location are you using?

I am using the one in Ankeny and working with Kevin. Mark in Ames also is pretty knowledgeable, Ankeny is closer to me though.

 

[MoparHusker]

Cam, cam bearings, rod bolts, main bolts and head bolts ordered. Cam bearings are a month out.

Just saw the flipping heads went up almost $100/pair. Ridiculous.