440 Starts fine cold, need gas can to start if stalled

[YY1]

Did I mention that it runs fine and can be driven for miles and miles?

It will idle for dozens of minutes without stumbling, loading up, stalling or getting hot.

It starts cold on the second or third rotation of the starter, and hot about the same, maybe one more crank.

When driving, it spins the tires easily with no hesitation, and has no flat spots, backfiring etc, when floored.

It does have a moderate surge when holding a steady RPM if you are a bit slower than the gear "want's" to be.


I did have a 1/2 base gasket on it, but replaced it because there was a vacuum leak in that location, and swapping to a new, thinner gasket fixed it.

Book spec timing for a 69 440 is "TDC" for a manual trans, "5 BTDC" for auto, and "7.5 BTDC" for HP version.
(per 1969 "Motor's" manual) Of course idle speed spec is also 750 and 700 respectfully.

I'm pretty sure it does have a cam. It's a lope and not just rough.

 

[Moparsr2fast]

It ckearly is not a timing issue then. I simply went off your initial description. I am at a loss as much as you since a stalled condition should pretty much duplicate itself when you shut it off and restart.

 

[SlinktRR]

Yep mine ran great too until I shut it down. Then it would only start up again with a shot of the ether. I re-routed fuel lines and added phenolic spacer, starts fine now even at summer temps. I can't see any other source of your problem other than carb, good luck with the troubleshoot.

 

[ga66mopar]

hey u said electric fuel pump / did u install a fuel pressure regulator [adjustable ] with a gauge , if not u better install one , elect fuel pumps push way more pressure @ fuel ,than the factory pump 4 - 7 psi max is all u need for stock motor

I agree if your running a electric fuel pump you need a regulator. Without a regulator I'm surprised it runs as well as it does.

 

[olsoldier]

I had a similar problem, and found that I had too much pressure in gas tank. It wasn't properly vented. I bought a vented gas cap and it solved my problem. Just a suggestion. Good luck.

 

[YY1]

I had a similar problem, and found that I had too much pressure in gas tank. It wasn't properly vented. I bought a vented gas cap and it solved my problem. Just a suggestion. Good luck.

Interesting you mention that.....my Satellite does have a "too much pressure in the tank" issue.

That car runs and drives like it was almost brand new.
The only manifestations of the problem are poor MPG (14), and the gas cap blowing out of your hand when removed.

The truck can't have it, as there is no gas cap!

 

[YY1]

Chapter two:

Drove it today.

Started fine cold.

Got underway a bit before choke was off, and let choke do the work (didn't touch gas pedal) until third gear.

Drove until hot.

Stalled it twice but it restarted fine. A little hairy the second time, but it did.

When I got home I stalled it pulling into the parking space.

No start.

Got out and shined a flashlight down the carb while working the throttle.

No squirty. Not from pump, not from venture.

Let fuel pump run for 45 seconds.

No squirty.

Squeezed rubber line from filter to bowl.

Pump changed pitch.

No squirty.

Poured splash of gas in carb

Started.

Squirty.

WTF??

 

[SlinktRR]

Hmm, I can only see three possibilities:

1) Fuel pump is not putting out enough pressure or is vapor locking (put a gauge on it and check psi)
2) The fuel is boiling out of the bowls from heat (try insulating the lines and carb from heat) or floats not set (check 7/16" height)
3) Fuel is leaking out of the carb into the motor (check crankcase oil for signs of dilution with gas)

May be time to pull the carb, take the top half off and inspect what is going on inside.

 

[67 coronet]

no squirt means no fuel supply.if you ran the electric pump for a bit and still nothing,then i see a couple potential problems.fuel is boiling out the bowls,but should refill with electric pump after a few seconds.you will need to fully actuate the throttle linkage a few times to reprime the accellerator pump and get it squirting.another poss issue could be the needle and seat sticking closed when you stall it and the electric pump not haeing enough presure to get it unstuck.eng vibrates when you start it with your fuel dump and loosens the needle and seats back open.that is just some odd guesses i am poking at.

 

[miller]

Interesting you mention that.....my Satellite does have a "too much pressure in the tank" issue.

That car runs and drives like it was almost brand new.
The only manifestations of the problem are poor MPG (14), and the gas cap blowing out of your hand when removed.

The truck can't have it, as there is no gas cap!

Could you elaborate a bit more on the gas cap bit?
Fuel delivery/supply prob could be the culprit. Almost sounds like you could be getting a vaccum through the tank/lines, and is getting starved for fuel. Those electric pumps don't like air, and can cavitate when fuel supply gets restricted. That might be your problem with fuel at the carb.

What kind of fuel filter is hooked-up? Maybe the type you can watch the fuel in?

Just thinking out-loud.

 

[mopar12372]

sounds like the diaphram in the fuel pump is rotten . ive also have had eddy carbs that did that and needed the jets and air bleeds cleaned and make sure the metering rods in the carb are moving free or a rebuild

 

[bigblock]

The fuel tank and or fuel filter is plugged just enough. When you stall the engine it shakes loose more trash. You are on the brink of being stranded.

 

[Rocketman]

this almost sounds like a joke we used to play on smartasses when I was a kid. We used to put ping pong balls in the tank, as the car ran it would suck the ball to the line causing the car to choke down and die. As the vacuum pressure reduced it would fall back down in the tank. Have you checked your tank for trash?

 

[rev.ronnie]

Check your fuel pump pushrod.

My 440-6 was giving me fits and that's what it was.

 

[YY1]

Lots of good ideas.

I think I will go with smacking the carb in the bowl area with a screwdriver handle to see if it will unstick the floats next time it happens.

Truck is running from a gas can strapped to the side step.

I have good quality clear filter, and yes, it is removing some crud, which is kinda odd, as there's only about 4 feet of metal line.

That pump definitely does not like to run dry. If I run it out of gas and refill the can, it will not start pumping fuel until it has set overnight!

 

[mopar12372]

ok reread post , you have a electric fuel pump . is the pump a 4-5 psi pump or does it have to be regulated ? (assumeing its conected directly to the carb and is in a full gas can ) with a gas can strapped to the step and your loseing prime now that you installed a eddy 600 carb . with a electric fuel pump you shouldnt loose prime . my guess is the carb needle is not working properly wich means it is staying open / clogged jets and air bleeds float level not in correct position will do this too .

 

[HawkRod]

Lots of good ideas.

I have good quality clear filter, and yes, it is removing some crud, which is kinda odd, as there's only about 4 feet of metal line.

I am no expert, but I will share that when my Road Runner had crud in the tank it caused all kinds of goofy problems with my car running. The tank was not rusted through, and looked fine externally, but internally had lots of crud.

I know you said you are running through a gas can, but I tend to think that you need to clean up the entire fuel delivery system. Electric fuel pumps like to push, not suck, so it should be lower and very close to the tank. It also needs to be the right pressure - not too high, not too low. Lack of a regulator or vent may cause problems. As stated above, the fuel has to be clean. Finally, the fuel has to be cool.

I would say honestly evaluate those items on your fuel delivery and take care of those. If they are not a direct cause of your problem they may still cause issues...

My $0.02

 

[YY1]

I agree it is not the most optimum system, however, other than the no squirt after stall issue, there are no fundamental or elementary drivability or starting issues that are normally associated with those kinds of problems.

The plastic 5 gallon "can" has a brass barb fitting threaded and sealed with Teflon tape, about 1/4 inch from the bottom.
From there, there is about 18" of hose, on a downward slant, to the pump, which feeds into the remainder of the metal line from just about the rear of the cab, to the filter, and then on to the carb.
All "uphill" delivery is "push".

So far- "sticking float on run dry of bowl" is the most logical to me.

Although you would think the valve might close under other circumstances than stall.
In fact, doesn't it close if the bowl is FULL, and not empty?

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

I had the same issue with my eddy 800, I determined it was heat soak. Put a 1/2" phenolic spacer under it and it was fine after that. Eventually went with a race carb but still using the same spacer.

 

[miller]

I agree it is not the most optimum system, however, other than the no squirt after stall issue, there are no fundamental or elementary drivability or starting issues that are normally associated with those kinds of problems.

So far- "sticking float on run dry of bowl" is the most logical to me.

Although you would think the valve might close under other circumstances than stall.
In fact, doesn't it close if the bowl is FULL, and not empty?

Roger that!

Kinda EMPTY, from trying to remember, how the gas line feeds to the carb would have a big effect.
Bottom line...from the sound of everything...you need to start at the tank, and go to the carb. Your fuel flow has some kind of prob. Watch your 'see-through' fuel filter when the damn thing 'stalls', and see what happens.
You definately have some kind of fuel 'feed' prob, even if it's a ton of junk in your system. If it's junk...you need to get it cleaned out!!!
Sure, you could have a few probs with the internal settings in the carb, but...you need good fuel to it first!

Ha! Bet your getting good fuel from your gas can!!!!!