512 builds.. post em if you got em!

[Hemirunner]

4.250 crank and TF240’s ordered today....

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I'm planning on doing some posts or videos of Dans 505 Stroker build. I have a spread sheet of most of the costs so far, but still need to buy a few more parts.
On my old 505 stroker, I spent more on the port EFI and Billet Specialities Tru-Track than what the rest of the engine cost. I was suprised when I was able to buy a low mile 6.1L Gen 3 Hemi, with all the accessories, EFI, computer, and NAG1 OD trans for $4,000. I haven't installed the Gen3 yet, been looking at the options and costs for the different swap options, and what transmission controllers will work.

A lot of guys completely dismiss the GEN III Hemi. It's an incredible value.

Talking about costs - - -

I don't have a 512, but generally, all the costs are the same. Pristine 400 low-deck block; $200 (from a good friend). Balanced stroker kit, upgraded bearings and rod bolts, $2,400. Edelbrock heads with ARP bolts; $1,500. Lunati cam / lifter / valvesprings; $530. Heads resurfaced, new exhaust valve, install springs; $200. Machine work, hot tank, sonic check, install & degree camshaft; $2,000 +/-. EFI (or carburetor); $1,000. Mopar M1-4500; $250. Breather; $100. Valve covers; $150. Oil pan; $100. Oil pump; $100. MSD 6AL2 ignition; $350. MSD Distributor; $300. MSD wires; $100. MSD coil; $75. ARP bolts (misc); $200. Fuel system (lines, tank, fittings, pumps); $600. Crane / Isky Ductile Adj Rocker Arms (most spend $500-$800 here); $300. Steward Performance pushrods, 3/8" .145" wall, 210* radius; $225 (IIRC). 1 7/8" Ceramic coated longtubes; $400.

This is an $11,080 build so far, and I'm sure missing a lot of other expensive options that most go for. $11,000 - $13,000 is a fair estimate. Just for reference, Dan Dvorak (Dvorak Machine) wanted $4,000 just to do the general machine work and bottom end assembly.

 

[PRHeads]

My suggestion for builds like this is to cam for the application and how the car will be driven, and don’t get hung up on a horsepower number.

You can take a really sweet running street build and noticeably degrade the street manners by chasing 20-30hp...... that you’d hardly even notice in your 3800lb street/strip car.

 

[747mopar]

My suggestion for builds like this is to cam for the application and how the car will be driven, and don’t get hung up on a horsepower number.

You can take a really sweet running street build and noticeably degrade the street manners by chasing 20-30hp...... that you’d hardly even notice in your 3800lb street/strip car.

Been there done that and 100% agree which is why I'm still looking for more HP LOL. My current plant has been fantastic but lacks the punch I'm looking for which leads me to the next 2 options in my book, more cubes or boost. Both of these options will gain HP while not hurting it's driveability, if I go with boost it will make more sense to go with a genIII and EFI and obviously a 512 for cubes.

The sole purpose of this thread was to see what some of the guys are getting out of their 512's, cam used, street manners, etc.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

My suggestion for builds like this is to cam for the application and how the car will be driven, and don’t get hung up on a horsepower number.

You can take a really sweet running street build and noticeably degrade the street manners by chasing 20-30hp...... that you’d hardly even notice in your 3800lb street/strip car.

Well, long tube headers build power pretty much everywhere over a manifold, creating much higher 'average' power numbers to go along with the peak performance. The wrong camshaft however for the manifold type, can kill a tremendous amount of 'street friendly' power, no doubt about that.

 

[1967coronet440]

747, I’ll list my 505 for comparison purposes, this build was geared more towards strip use that street.

440 .030

Eagle 4.25 crank with 8 bolt flange
H beam rods
Mahle pistons with -8.0 valve reliefs
11.9:1 Cr

Comp solid roller 108lsa 263/270 @.050
693/694 lift with 1.6 T&D roller rockers
BAM roller lifters

Victor max wedge heads
Back cut Ferrea valves
Super victor intake

Going to get it on the dyno this winter, expecting 700 ish hp

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Been there done that and 100% agree which is why I'm still looking for more HP LOL. My current plant has been fantastic but lacks the punch I'm looking for which leads me to the next 2 options in my book, more cubes or boost. Both of these options will gain HP while not hurting it's driveability, if I go with boost it will make more sense to go with a genIII and EFI and obviously a 512 for cubes.

The sole purpose of this thread was to see what some of the guys are getting out of their 512's, cam used, street manners, etc.

Engine Masters just built a turbo 5.3 LS. Completely stock other than injectors, rods, and pistons. It made 545-HP / 560 ft/lbs of torque. Less than 10# of boost. There is a really valid argument against going to a more modern configuration and adding a twin-screw, turbo, or procharger.

512-cubes with the TF 270s, will easily make 650-HP with a mild camshaft. The glory of the 500-cube Wedge engines is when they can carry that massive flat-torque curve, well past 6,000 RPM.

By the time you go GEN III and add forced induction with the factory EFI, you're better off with the Hellcrate.

 

[Hemirunner]

512-cubes with the TF 270s, will easily make 650-HP with a mild camshaft.

We’ve done that using Performer heads and a hydraulic roller. The TF heads are significantly better.

I take that back.... it only made 625 but lots of torque.. with a 6 bbl setup lol. A single 4150 would have made 650 no doubt.

 

[747mopar]

We’ve done that using Performer heads and a hydraulic roller. The TF heads are significantly better.

I take that back.... it only made 625 but lots of torque.. with a 6 bbl setup lol. A single 4150 would have made 650 no doubt.
View attachment 681506

This is exactly the kind of information I've been wanting to see, thanks for posting BadassHemirunner. Do you have the cam specs, cfm for the 6 pack?

Engine Masters just built a turbo 5.3 LS. Completely stock other than injectors, rods, and pistons. It made 545-HP / 560 ft/lbs of torque. Less than 10# of boost. There is a really valid argument against going to a more modern configuration and adding a twin-screw, turbo, or procharger.

512-cubes with the TF 270s, will easily make 650-HP with a mild camshaft. The glory of the 500-cube Wedge engines is when they can carry that massive flat-torque curve, well past 6,000 RPM.

By the time you go GEN III and add forced induction with the factory EFI, you're better off with the Hellcrate.

Exactly, I wouldn't even waste my time with a Gen III unless it was a Hellcat, to many upgrades to not take advantage of, it is a purpose built engine.

My big obstacle is selecting the best cam for the job? I'll gladly surrender HP before I give up a reasonable cruising rpm... that's what makes my car so enjoyable to drive, it easily and effortlessly makes long hauls while getting respectable mileage.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

We’ve done that using Performer heads and a hydraulic roller. The TF heads are significantly better.

I take that back.... it only made 625 but lots of torque.. with a 6 bbl setup lol. A single 4150 would have made 650 no doubt.
View attachment 681506

Don’t underestimate the six pack if it was properly set up, I proved on my car that it was a wash between the six barrel and my 1050AN/4150. Granted we were cheating a little bit on the center carb though... Dominator is a different matter.

Six pack

1050/4150

 

[BSB67]

This is exactly the kind of information I've been wanting to see, thanks for posting BadassHemirunner. Do you have the cam specs, cfm for the 6 pack?

Exactly, I wouldn't even waste my time with a Gen III unless it was a Hellcat, to many upgrades to not take advantage of, it is a purpose built engine.

My big obstacle is selecting the best cam for the job? I'll gladly surrender HP before I give up a reasonable cruising rpm... that's what makes my car so enjoyable to drive, it easily and effortlessly makes long hauls while getting respectable mileage.

Do you have a performance goal in mind, and what is the performance of your current set up?

As a common responded to posts like this, the part that I struggle with is when someone wants 600 hp, or what ever the hp number is. For me, the number is arbitrary unless you plan to run it at the track. Build a motor that will drive the way you want it to drive, and if you want it faster, put nitrous on it.

 

[Hemirunner]

This is exactly the kind of information I've been wanting to see, thanks for posting BadassHemirunner. Do you have the cam specs, cfm for the 6 pack?
.

Cam was an XR292HR10 installed at 106. Intake was port matched to the heads. Carbs were new MP pieces that we only tuned for WOT jetting.

 

[451Mopar]

The 440 > 505 in the Convertible is 10.3:1 compression, Stealth heads with some porting and valve job, the Comp Hydraulic Roller XR286HR10 (one step milider than Hemirunner), 1.6:1 ratio HarlanSharp Rockers, ISKY 8005A springs, Comp 748-16 retainers. Originally used a Performer RPM intake, but now had the Edelbrock XT EFI intake. TTI 1-7/8" headers and 2.5" dual exhaust with X pipe crossover. Have not had it on a dyno, but I would expect around 550 HP? Torque is really strong, and I can cruse at 50 MPH @ 1,500 RPM with the Over Drive transmission.

The 400 > 500 in the Charger is likely 700+ HP, but I would not consider it a street build although I do drive it on the street. 12.4:1 compression, has a Custom comp solid roller cam over 270 @ 0.050" duration and over 0.700" lift, Hughes CNC ported Victor Max Wedge Heads, Indy Intake, 2" headers.

 

[747mopar]

Do you have a performance goal in mind, and what is the performance of your current set up?

As a common responded to posts like this, the part that I struggle with is when someone wants 600 hp, or what ever the hp number is. For me, the number is arbitrary unless you plan to run it at the track. Build a motor that will drive the way you want it to drive, and if you want it faster, put nitrous on it.

Do you have a performance goal in mind, and what is the performance of your current set up?

As a common responded to posts like this, the part that I struggle with is when someone wants 600 hp, or what ever the hp number is. For me, the number is arbitrary unless you plan to run it at the track. Build a motor that will drive the way you want it to drive, and if you want it faster, put nitrous on it.

I get that but when starting a thread where your trying to get input there has to be a measurement as to what your goal is. I've had 350-500ish hp builds and have driven 700hp cars so 600 hp is just a number that I feel would be in the ballpark of what I'm after give or take a bit. I've always built my own engines so not having access to a dyno I rely on research to point me in the right direction, I'm simply looking for input.

 

[BSB67]

I get that but when starting a thread where your trying to get input there has to be a measurement as to what your goal is. I've had 350-500ish hp builds and have driven 700hp cars so 600 hp is just a number that I feel would be in the ballpark of what I'm after give or take a bit. I've always built my own engines so not having access to a dyno I rely on research to point me in the right direction, I'm simply looking for input.

Okay. Would you be okay with a solid flat tappet or solid roller, and would the say, 30 or 40 hp advantage be worth it to you? how many miles will you drive a year?

 

[747mopar]

Okay. Would you be okay with a solid flat tappet or solid roller, and would the say, 30 or 40 hp advantage be worth it to you? how many miles will you drive a year?

I've got a solid flat tappet in my current build, I don't mind the extra maintenance at all and if there was a very significant advantage to running a roller I wouldn't be against it either but would prefer to stay away from them. I don't like the idea of having shrapnel all through the engine if one fails.

On a good year I put 4,000 miles on it, mostly within 1 hour drives but have taken quite a few 12 hour round trips.

 

[PRHeads]

10-10.5cr, TF240 heads, find a used M1 single plane intake, 1-7/8” headers, 1.450x1.750 carb, then when you've gotten all that stuff nailed down, along with the trans/rear gear/tire diameter(to determine cruise rpm), then you get the cam.

If the cruise rpm is quite low, then I’d use an RPM intake instead of the M1.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

What we really should be asking, is what engine combination provides the highest average torque over a specific range. In a drag application, that range may be the upper 1,500 - 1,750 RPM of an engines powerband. In a street application, that range may be from idle - 5,000 RPM.

Then we get into the discussion, how much actual torque does the tire see? How important is the rest of the combination?

440 - 490 ft/lbs / 3,000 converter / 3.91 gears - 5.75 (numerical value) <- representation of street car
512 - 600 ft/lbs / 3,000 converter / 3.23 gears - 5.8 (numerical value) <- representation of street car, note, the greater numerical value of the 512, even with the gearing deficit
440 - 490 ft/lbs / 4,500 converter / 4.56 gears - 10.05 (numerical value) <- representation of drag car
512 - 600 ft/lbs / 4,000 converter / 4.10 gears - 9.8 (numerical value) <-representation of a 'hot' street car


This is a really general and basic illustration, of why it's important to have a plan and build the proper combination.

 

[Challenger340]

We just finished a 440 RB based 493 Stroker,(we wanted the dead nuts quiet running 1.87 CD Pistons for the Muffler'd Street Car).
We used a small 229/237 @ .050 HR Cam(custom) on 112* lsa for the O.D. Trans and 2,000 rpm cruising.
E-Street Heads, lightly Ported/Prepped/Flowed @ 286 cfm @ .550" Lift on our SF750 Bench
10:1 C.R.
Street Dominator Intake(good underhood clearance) Ported.
Dyno'd it using an 830 Carb and rather large 2-1/8" Dyno Headers
32* Timing
Made 620 Ft/Lbs @4200 and 575 Hp @ 5350, still pulled 600 Ft/Lbs down at 3,000 rpm
Very nice running Engine, very good Idle and decent vacuum, and showed nice characteristics under simulated Highway cruise 2000 rpm on the Dyno(very low loads)

In a couple of weeks we will be putting it back on the Dyno when the Customer arrives to install and Tune a Holley Sniper EFI System, and using the Customers 2" tti Headers.
I'll try to remember to come back with the results after switching to/testing the EFI System, but we expect to lose some Trq and get back under 600 Ft/lbs and keep the 5 Spd OD happy, but I believe at this point anyways, that we left enough on the table tuning wise in the first Dyno session(didn't chase power), that we may be able to stay close to the 575hp.

 

[BSB67]

I've got a solid flat tappet in my current build, I don't mind the extra maintenance at all and if there was a very significant advantage to running a roller I wouldn't be against it either but would prefer to stay away from them. I don't like the idea of having shrapnel all through the engine if one fails.

On a good year I put 4,000 miles on it, mostly within 1 hour drives but have taken quite a few 12 hour round trips.

I think with a good roller lifter and modest spring pressures with a solid street roller cam design, the chance of roller lifter shrapnel is less than flat tappet grindings going through your motor. But no doubt they have higher spring pressures and are harder on parts. You'll just need to decide the risk/benefit of a solid roller.

Here is mine: http://508charger.yolasite.com/

Mine is short of 600 hp. I have a small solid roller but eddy heads and factory exhaust manifolds. If you add TF heads and headers to my motor it will certainly be over 600 hp, and probably run 124-125 mph and potential high 10s et, and you'll be able to drive around at 1500 rpm in overdrive. Have someone like PRH spec a different small roller for it, and I think you could get to 650 hp with a very docile driver.