'69 383 Setup Headache

[miller]

You changed the distributor, but also mention mechanical advance might be sticking? First, never even seen one of the dizzys like you have, but besides the point. Pull the distributor cap, and twist the rotor to see if, it easily rotates, and easily returns back into place.
Just in case you don't know, the main shaft of the distributor, comes up into the capped area. The advance parts of the dizzy ride off a separated part the advance parts mount to, that rotate on the main shaft. Where the advance mech fits on the main shaft needs to be lubed now, and then. Just a hollow shaft fitted onto the main shaft.
Usually just pull the rotor, to expose an oiling felt in the center of the advance's shaft. Couple drops of light oil, unless it's rusted or gummed up. Then, needs to be cleaned up.

Timing chain. Pull all the spark plugs, and using your brandy-new socket, turn the motor by hand to top dead center exhaust stroke #1, and have it there, before pulling the chain. That's where you'll want it, to install the new chain and gears. Main thing is to get the cam set right. If needed, to set the 'dots' right, you can always rotate the motor more.

 

[lewtot184]

changing the step-up springs changes the time/rpm that power enrichment occurs. in a high vacuum engine a light spring may not let power enrichment at heavy part throttle occur soon enough; creating a lean condition (bog/flat spot). it's simple to experiment with and i have done some. basically your fine tuning the power enrichment. the orange springs work pretty good in general cases. most people have the opposite issue you have due to low vacuum (need lighter springs to control fuel).

 

[Addabob]

You changed the distributor, but also mention mechanical advance might be sticking? First, never even seen one of the dizzys like you have, but besides the point. Pull the distributor cap, and twist the rotor to see if, it easily rotates, and easily returns back into place.
Just in case you don't know, the main shaft of the distributor, comes up into the capped area. The advance parts of the dizzy ride off a separated part the advance parts mount to, that rotate on the main shaft. Where the advance mech fits on the main shaft needs to be lubed now, and then. Just a hollow shaft fitted onto the main shaft.
Usually just pull the rotor, to expose an oiling felt in the center of the advance's shaft. Couple drops of light oil, unless it's rusted or gummed up. Then, needs to be cleaned up.

Timing chain. Pull all the spark plugs, and using your brandy-new socket, turn the motor by hand to top dead center exhaust stroke #1, and have it there, before pulling the chain. That's where you'll want it, to install the new chain and gears. Main thing is to get the cam set right. If needed, to set the 'dots' right, you can always rotate the motor more.

Well, I only say that since it was working before, but I did remove the dist cap when comtemplating one of the timing chain slop tests that was outlined. Maybe I pinched something when I put the cap back on... I will take a look at see what it is, and take a look to see if I can see the oiling felt.

As for the timing chain, yes I read about the positioning to TDC, but they didn't say whether on the combustion or exhaust stroke. Your info helps once again!! And I assume the way to tell if it is the exhaust stroke is that there will be no compression felt with my finger over the spark plug hole as the piston is coming back up since the exhaust valve will be open, correct..?

Thankss!!

- - - Updated - - -

changing the step-up springs changes the time/rpm that power enrichment occurs. in a high vacuum engine a light spring may not let power enrichment at heavy part throttle occur soon enough; creating a lean condition (bog/flat spot). it's simple to experiment with and i have done some. basically your fine tuning the power enrichment. the orange springs work pretty good in general cases. most people have the opposite issue you have due to low vacuum (need lighter springs to control fuel).

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. It definitely seems to have decent vacuum.

 

[Addabob]

Checked timing again. It was still in the mid 30s at 700 rpm idle with vac advance disconnected, and did not change with more rpm. Took off cap, flicked the mech advance, all seemed ok, reassembled. Initial Timing now at 11*, and mech advance kicks in as spring size dictates taking it up to about 38* total, so somewhere around 26* in mech advance verses the 24 that Pertronix says this unit has. At idle with vac advance hooked to full manifold of 19", I am at about 27-28*, so pulling the 16* in vac advance as speced. In gear vac is 16-17".

Should get the carb calibration kit tomorrow, so may throw in the 7 or 8" step up springs too, and then go drive a bit and see how it works.

Timing chain stuff should be in tomorrow too, so may look at doing that over Christmas. Any special tools I will need? I just have standard stuff in my tool box, so don't assume I have anything specialized at all...

 

[miller]

As for the timing chain, yes I read about the positioning to TDC, but they didn't say whether on the combustion or exhaust stroke. Your info helps once again!! And I assume the way to tell if it is the exhaust stroke is that there will be no compression felt with my finger over the spark plug hole as the piston is coming back up since the exhaust valve will be open, correct..?

Guess it depends on who's finger. Some try it...50-50 deal. Depends on cam/motor, since either stroke you'll get blowback. Try it, and see. Prefer positive, by knowing what the valves are doing. Pull the distributor (you do want to wear it out, right?), and look in the hole. Driver's side of the motor, in the hole, first two tappet/push rod set is for #1.
Just know what's doing what...when. TDC on #1, #6 is also at TDC, same time, but different strokes. If #1 is on compression stroke, #6 is on exhaust stroke, or reverse.
Piston on top, TDC, for #1...watch the tappets/pushrods...if #1 is on compression stroke, when you rotate the crank back and forth a little, neither tappet moves. If they do slightly move...one opening, the other closing...it's on exhaust stroke. Your looking at what's called valve overlap, where both valves are slightly open at the same time.
Two plus two stuff...if #1 is on compression stroke, #6 is on exhaust.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Checked timing again. It was still in the mid 30s at 700 rpm idle with vac advance disconnected, and did not change with more rpm. Took off cap, flicked the mech advance, all seemed ok, reassembled. Initial Timing now at 11*, and mech advance kicks in as spring size dictates taking it up to about 38* total, so somewhere around 26* in mech advance verses the 24 that Pertronix says this unit has. At idle with vac advance hooked to full manifold of 19", I am at about 27-28*, so pulling the 16* in vac advance as speced. In gear vac is 16-17".

Should get the carb calibration kit tomorrow, so may throw in the 7 or 8" step up springs too, and then go drive a bit and see how it works.

Timing chain stuff should be in tomorrow too, so may look at doing that over Christmas. Any special tools I will need? I just have standard stuff in my tool box, so don't assume I have anything specialized at all...

1 1/4" socket, gear puller for the vibration dampner and tourque wrench should take care of the special tools.

 

[Addabob]

1 1/4" socket, gear puller for the vibration dampner and tourque wrench should take care of the special tools.

Thanks Mopar! I already have a torque wrench. I will have to see if I can find me a gear puller. The 1 1/4" is already on my list of stuff to get next trip to town...

Have a great weekend!!

 

[Brandy]

This is an educational thread. I have forgotten most of this over the years. What a great refresher course this is! Watching to see how it turns out.

 

[5.7 hemi]

A steering wheel puller will also get the balancer off in a pinch.

 

[SlinktRR]

A steering wheel puller will also get the balancer off in a pinch.

An electric impact wrench is good for the job too. An impact is nice to have for working in the garage.

 

[coloradodave]

"Thanks Mopar! I already have a torque wrench. I will have to see if I can find me a gear puller. The 1 1/4" is already on my list of stuff to get next trip to town..."

Go to any Oreillys and borrow a balancer puller and installer. It'll make your life easier and doesn't cost anything. Don't forget the front end gasket set and some silicone sealer for the timing cover to pan seal.

 

[miller]

And a new front main seal!

 

[metaldad]

good read guys.
very knowledgeable gents here, thanks for sharing your information.

 

[coloradodave]

And a new front main seal!

Timing cover seal should come with the front end gasket set.

 

[Addabob]

Thanks guys! Good idea on borrowing the puller from OReillys. I think I have all of the gaskets as I got a full rebuild set, but will validate that it has the ones needed. Not sure if the "main seal" is included in that set, but will check.

i have the car in for some exhaust and front end suspension work now, but hope to replace the chain and gears between Christmas and NYE. Also have to get my distributor figured out and fixed or replaced. I have a Pertronix Flamethrower 3 D7142700 that seems to have the mechanical advance mechanism sticking. I set initial to 12* and total to 38-39*. Hook up vac and go driving. Come back, disconnect vac advance, check timing and it is now ~30*, and does not change as I rev the motor where the mechanical advance usually kicks in. Applying vac increases timing to over 52*, so vac advance seems to be not stuck... Trying to see if I can get Summit & Pertronix to replace the unit... Probably something catching in the mechanism...

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

- - - Updated - - -

An electric impact wrench is good for the job too. An impact is nice to have for working in the garage.

I do have an air impact wrench, so hopefully good to go there.

 

[Addabob]

Just a quick update. I have been working with Pertronix on the timing issue. Seems as if this issue is caused by the Ignitor Module inside the distributor. Marvin has been great to work with and is sending me the updated parts to fix it. Looking forward to getting this resolved.