'69 440 Upgrade combo...your thoughts?

[lewtot184]

Here’s my old .030 440 with 906 heads .284 purple cam Holley 750 3.91s Hedmans headers, ran good but not much performance i think it turned a 13.2 at 10x mph could’ve benefited with a better intake and smaller carb I think.

I like those '67's!

 

[wyrmrider]

Great posts above
I don't think they sell those anymore I had my sealed power catalog a couple of days ago and boxed it up now can't find the box
at least he won't have to worry about tagging the valves
mopars wear well but I'd mike the bores and if ok ridgid hone medium coarse- inspect for funny spots- then bottle brush fine and some new rings
Those pistons may be "compensated" .015 less than the stock piston they replace
did you find the compression height on those pistons- we can double check the deck clearance
what gasket did you do the compression with- you might want to go with a thin one BVVC with MLS without proper finish on the decks
I would not be tempted to mill the *** out of my new heads trying to chase compression
better off getting the intake close point early

 

[69 R/T]

knowing what I know now and from years of goofing up (LOL), this is what i'd do. run the ch4b and the 750 carb is ok but really won't make more power than a stock big AVS. stealth heads are probably at the bottom of the bucket when it comes to alum heads. they don't flow anywhere near advertised. i'd have somebody check them out and make sure all the parts are up to snuff, (IQ52 is a member here and could do this and he's not too far away from you). i'd use a fel-pro 8519 head gasket and compression will be around 9.2:1. the cam you listed in my opinion is a no-go. i'd take a couple of steps back. you might be surprised at the cheapo summit 6401 with the crane rockers (the true ratio will be higher than advertised) and it will work fine with cast exhaust. you'll have to carefully check rocker geometry and will probably need custom length push rods with those heads. I doubt your chevy guy has done this on a mopar; chevies are set up different. don't know what your doing for ignition but the FBO (4sec flat, owner is a member here, Don Gould) rev-limiter box package and advance control plate with a mopar distributor is a good economical package. keep in mind that stock 375hp 440's had a peak power rating at 4600rpm and peak power with this combo is probably around 5000rpm. 5000-5300rpm should be safe with this combo but I wouldn't push it!

Thanks for your wealth of info, I appreciate and respect your knowledge. I can probably return the cam set, I bought it from Summit and it's never been out of the box. The ignition I'm running is the Pertronix Igniter II with the Flame Thrower coil. Static timing is 13, total is 37 and with vacuum advance around 50.

 

[69 R/T]

Great posts above
I don't think they sell those anymore I had my sealed power catalog a couple of days ago and boxed it up now can't find the box
at least he won't have to worry about tagging the valves
mopars wear well but I'd mike the bores and if ok ridgid hone medium coarse- inspect for funny spots- then bottle brush fine and some new rings
Those pistons may be "compensated" .015 less than the stock piston they replace
did you find the compression height on those pistons- we can double check the deck clearance
what gasket did you do the compression with- you might want to go with a thin one BVVC with MLS without proper finish on the decks
I would not be tempted to mill the *** out of my new heads trying to chase compression
better off getting the intake close point early[/QUOTE
They still sell those pistons. P/N is 350NP 30 (.030 over) cast flat tops with 1.990 compression distance. Let me clarify please....this engine is not being done. It was rebuilt by the previous owner of my car back in 2000. It's not driven much, but I got the bug to do stealthy hot rod stuff while keeping it stock looking. Thanks for all your technical advice. My skills and work space is limited, therefore I have lots to learn even though I've been into Mopar muscle since 1977. Having a hot rod and apartment living is kind of a rough combo.

 

[BSB67]

108lsa, 72 degrees overlap; don't go there with manifolds. you don't need lumpy cams to make power. i'm going to guess that BSB67's 67 charger made north of 430hp (not inflated magazine/internet power, but with all accessories and buttoned up) on the 272/.455 cam with manifolds, and that was 30yrs ago. what can we do now, knowing what we know, and with the newer parts available?

Crap. That was almost 30 years ago.

 

[lewtot184]

Crap. That was almost 30 years ago.

almost.

 

[lewtot184]

Thanks for your wealth of info, I appreciate and respect your knowledge. I can probably return the cam set, I bought it from Summit and it's never been out of the box. The ignition I'm running is the Pertronix Igniter II with the Flame Thrower coil. Static timing is 13, total is 37 and with vacuum advance around 50.

crane 683802 is very close to the 6401. probably better made. pertronix is ok. I just thought a rev-limiter with a 4spd would have advantages.

 

[wyrmrider]

cc those heads and compute CR - just make arrangements for the return
I do think you are 2 Big but do not know how much
Stock manifolds are a special case they do not like as much a exhaust as headers (open headers do not need s much as headers through the mufflers) each case is different
you do not get nearly as much pull from the exhaust with stock manifolds so big overlap does not help as much
get the CR and I'll send you a PM

 

[wyrmrider]

I don't get that much deck clearance (comparing the 1.990 Ch with a 6 pack piston) - what was it about .090 in the above spec sheet post
what did your measurement say?
Through the mufflers cast iron manifolds, through the mufflers with headers and open headers each takes a different cam
looks like stock manifolds runs into a duration wall
big overlap does not help nearly as much with stock manifolds- scavenging, pulling on the intake with the exhaust- just like a wet exhaust on a boat and through the propeller
all different

 

[69 R/T]

crane 683802 is very close to the 6401. probably better made. pertronix is ok. I just thought a rev-limiter with a 4spd would have advantages.

I ran that Crane cam in the mid 80s when it was called the MHV? grind. It ran great in my 67 R/T with 727 and 3.23's. Ran 13.95 @101 mph in daily driver mode. My buddy has a brand new Comp XE268 he offered me for free.

 

[lewtot184]

I've played with comps 268 intake lobes in 440's. don't particularly care for them in 440's, but if you do use it back it up 4 degrees. the combo I layed out should easily do 104-106mph in the quarter, if you can get some traction.

 

[wyrmrider]

I have a brand new Engle EP 18 I'll give you
but for the same reason I still have it
sometime free is not the best
yep the old MHV series- one of the better series back then
You might have to play with that 268H lower compression leave it advanced, higher back it up, headers?
if you get new rockers throw some 1.6 on the intake only
If you are trying to stay under half inch lift then (without looking a Bullet )
the 265 voodo, or 268 voodoo or the K56 Engle
the most seat duration I see with a MOPAR grind is the 279 voodoo
One thing to do is try that Comp and see how you like it then decide which way to jump if you have to
lewtot did you back it up with or without headers and what compression?

 

[Challenger340]

350N is the wrong Piston for even the most basic performance style 440 build.
IMO,
start over.

 

[Challenger340]

I think what he is saying is that a simple DIY bowl blend makes a difference - right Challenger?
what to do
cc the heads and check the compression height
measure twice cut once theory
glad they have modern plugs- indicate they may have a more modern chamber
I do not know anyone running that cam but the old purple shafts could be improved so I'm glad comp did
I think Crane "computer smoothed" them years ago also
but as someone else said that is a much bigger cam
but with 4.10's go for it IDK about 3.23
ANYONE running 3.23s , stock ex manifolds and 484 purple shaft?
I'm waiting for compression
cheers

Really simple no brainer KISS method seat prep, and NO "tricks", except maybe the 75* and 90* cuts can't be done with "stones" by DIY guys, so you will need them "cut" with cutters on a Head Machine.
Intakes:
Move the 45* Seat out to the Edge of the Valve, just touch W/30* so 45* O.D. is right at 2.13"(2.14"Valve)
Trim the 45* width to the .040" width with the 60* cut.
Trim the 60* width to about .080" with the 75*
Trim the 75* to about .100" width with the 90* Throat cut up into the Bowl.
Hand blend whatever 90* ridge is left into the Bowl Wall.

Exhausts:
Do the same but make the 45* Seats wider at about .070" for Heat Transfer
Lap the seat contacts onto the Valves
Back-Cut Valves within .020" of the lapped seat marks.

Fattens the Flow up on both sides nicely.

Most all Stealth's are 82+ cc OOTB, CC them then Mill as Req'd to where you want.
You don't have to worry about correcting the Intake faces, the Intake Bolts still line up fine unless the Block or Head Milling together starts exceeding .040"-.050" ?

 

[wyrmrider]

check the guides for clearance
and check for run-out First
good post Challanger
you can go to a 5 angle if the 3 angle cuts look too wide (not counting the steep cuts)
OP is not doing a short block rebuild at this time from what I read rings?

 

[James Memmel]

 

[69 R/T]

350N is the wrong Piston for even the most basic performance style 440 build.
IMO,
start over.

I bought the car restored with the engine already done. I was going through the receipts and saw he used Speed Pro 350NP30's. Car runs great and without flaw, but it want to do some stealthy bolt on's while looking stock for shows. I think my original question got lost somewhere. lol