After a rebuild on my 63 Fury w/ 318 build up and tranny service and new convertor the shift points are quick. Quicker than it was before especially 1 to 2 and shop says not much to do with it. The kick-down rod is set far as it will go. Problem is the 2-3 shift is real quick and slight thud when it hits 3rd under normal throttle. Pedal has to be near maxed to downshift. I'm having a hard time buying the apparent brick wall on this. I was thinking the 2-3 band could be adjusted but shop didn't reply to this saying maybe the rod could be bent to improve shifting. My experience with this is limited but have done some of this work before (and on this car including installing a shift kit some years back). You get to a point where the rod travel is maxed out at the tranny. Shop I think may have shortchanged me on some of the expected trans rebuild work but can't say of course without ripping it down. Anyway, if there are some techniques to address the shift points would be great to hear. Thx.
727 Shift Points
- Thread starter Ron H
- Start date
moes
Well-Known Member
block the accumulator (remove the spring) and turn up the pressure, 2 turns on the regulator isn't a large amount so you'll be safe. That's about it short of installing a TF2 shift kit.
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Yatzee
Well-Known Member
The tranny shop is correct in saying the rod lenght is incorrect but the again they may have put the wrong pressure control lever on your trans, mainly too long. Usually a cable installation can give you better adjustment points where 1- 2 would be about 15 mph under normal acceleration and 2 - 3 about 25 mph. If the tranny were '71 and up, passing gear would be "on demand" and not require flooring the pedal. I hesitate to think the shop did anything wrong as these tranny's have been around forever and are probably the easiest to adjust. Your bands may be a little tight because you have a bit of 2 - 3 overlap on that shift. This was an issue on many 727 and the usual way to correct it was with a decent shift kit. If it shifts to fast and too hard you risk pooping the retainer ring for the servo piston and it will turn sideways and jam in it's bore. A new thicker piston is available to prevent this. Also when most shift kits are installed, the spring for the accumulator is left out in favor of a solid rod to keep the accumulator piston down. I resolved all the same issues with a new TCI shifter body (which you can easily install yourself) because the original shift body was 37 years old and most likely worn. I would go back to the shop with your grievances or have another shop test drive the car for second opinions. I know you probably paid a good chunk of change to have the tranny rebuilt, and you really should get a smooth operating transmission in the end.
RT K_line
Well-Known Member
does the shift point change the more throttle you give it or does it still shift too quickly? What are the shift point speeds at moderate throttle?
I had put in a B&M kit years ago I think and don't recall some of the details other than setting for intermediate performance you know not the harshest shift. I can't recollect other tidbits but followed instructions carefully. The shift delays the more you throttle it but have to keep it pretty much floored. The on demand would be great but as said this was with later 727. Mine is a push button trans so not sure about shift kits for it as mentioned. I'll have to get some instructions on the adjustments brought up here. Thx!
miller
Well-Known Member
Two things come to mind, though it's been a loong time, since I've worked on a cable shift. Pretty sure it's the same.
As already mentioned, band adjustments might be too tight. Other thing, if kickdown won't adjust right, wonder if the 'stop' adjustment is right. But, that's inside the pan. Just a measured adjustment, to limit it's travel. Hard to believe it wouldn't be correct.
As already mentioned, band adjustments might be too tight. Other thing, if kickdown won't adjust right, wonder if the 'stop' adjustment is right. But, that's inside the pan. Just a measured adjustment, to limit it's travel. Hard to believe it wouldn't be correct.
Yatzee
Well-Known Member
Now that we've established the fact that you have a cable shift tranny you're issue is somewhat typical of those units. Changing the shifter body is really not possible as no one makes one for that unit. The hole in the case for the shifter shaft is a different size than all the others so no option exists there. A shifter kit is supposed to correct the drain-back issue with the converter and delay the engagement of the clutches ( 2 - 3 overlap ) but this requires drilling out a port in the case from the shifter body and inserting an orffice plug to change the fluid flow to the forward clutch plates. It seems to work as I've done it in the past with a cable shift tranny. But I really think you need to check the fluid pressures and get your shift points under control via the tranny pressure control lever. You should, in no way, run out of adjustment there unless you have the wrong rod or lever, or, your carb throttle plate ( on the side of the carb ) is not the same design as OE. If you have an Edlebroke this would be the case as Mopar originally used carbs with the Holley design. I would suggest that you're pulling the tranny lever out of sink with throttle position of the carb. At wide open throttle, the lever at the tranny should be all the way back but the lever should never limit or prevent WOT. Your tranny will only kick down with the pedal floored. I still suggest a cable kick down as opposed to rods and levers ( which may produce slop and wear ) because you have more adjustment options with a cable.
KENTON
Well-Known Member
You might look for a crack in the valve body if you take it out. The cable shift VBs were prone to cracking .
Does the throttle lever on the trans go all the way rearward at full throttle? There are different length trans levers for the kick down attachment . The geometry has to be correct. Different carb attachment points (throttle shaft to attacment distance) will affect it. Shifts are controlled by governer pressure overcoming throttle pressure. Is it only part throttle shifts that the rpm is to low or all shifts? You can trim the governor weights to raise shift rpm. A lower rear axle ratio also will shift earlier due to the increase in drive shaft (governer) speed.
Doug
Doug
I appreciate all of the tips here and wow a lot to check and to think on! As I've read as possible issues a few things have changed with my car before rebuild I switched from 3:23 to 3:55 rear and the new carb on here is an Edelbrock so some linkage issues could be there but didn't see anything pop out so need to check this more carefully. I didn't notice that much of a difference in shifting points after rear change and before the engine rebuild with new carb; but 2-3 always seemed too quick and harsh; but seems more so now. Also from what's been posted, the shift points aren't all that far off so it could then be a matter of some modifications as described here to obtain a more delayed shift and quicker response to downshifting from 3 to 2 without having to floor it. I find several possible things that could be done and guess now to figure out what would be the less involved or complex options at least as a start...again thanks for these tips and might ask to bother you on some of the how to's...
As mentioned I'd do, I rechecked the kick down rod travel and this also reminded me of something I forgot about the rod. First, I find that with the rod extended all the way doesn't fully max the valve body lever; I'd say close but there's still a bit of travel remaining to be had. Next is the rod...my car was originally a 2bbl and not sure if the stock 2bbl rod could have been different than for the 4bbl set up? As I understand in '63 the 318 didn't come with a 4bbl option though in '62 I think they did. Anyone know about rod variance or am I barking up the wrong tree?
See if you can get some all-thread and a coupler and extend the length of the rod. Favored adjustment seems to be about 1/16 inch rod movement left with the carb linkage wide open. This could even be reduced further as long as the KD rod doesn't prevent wide open throttle. Just to reinforce earlier cmts - kick down in these cars requires full throttle for the most part.
The difference is the length of the kick down lever itself. It may be to long. I believe 2brl and 4 brl are different lengths/ You can cheat by placing the attachment point further from the throttle shaft. Do you have this?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-_-edelbrock&gclid=CLvRuo-6iNUCFdy6wAoduokBAA
Doug
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-_-edelbrock&gclid=CLvRuo-6iNUCFdy6wAoduokBAA
Doug
miller
Well-Known Member
A fairly easy check, you can do, on the kickdown/throttle pressure travel. Remember they are the same.
With the rod un-hooked at the carb, get an accurate measurement of the full travel of the rod. You'll have free play at first, until getting to the return spring, then to fully toward the rear.
You can use that measurement, minus some for part of the free play, to choose a point on the carb throttle arm, to get the matching 'swing', or travel. That will tell you if the rod you have will work, or a different length.
With the rod un-hooked at the carb, get an accurate measurement of the full travel of the rod. You'll have free play at first, until getting to the return spring, then to fully toward the rear.
You can use that measurement, minus some for part of the free play, to choose a point on the carb throttle arm, to get the matching 'swing', or travel. That will tell you if the rod you have will work, or a different length.
As has been mentioned in your posts, I also viewed a video on net from "R/T Dan" doing a line pressure adjustment on a GTX by turning the adjuster spring tighter to increase pressure (he did a full 5-turn adj) and thus the shift points and ensuring proper adjustment of the rod. OK, based on your posts above about remaining lever tolerance of 1/16" mine looks around 3/16" at WOT. Looking at my factory manual for the '63 trans, to further understand what you gent's have posted about making adj to line pressure, each full turn cc increases pressure by 1-2/3 psi. Another article I read (Hot Rod) indicates this will have a mild impact and then moving to the governor for getting more results. R/T Dan seemed to get all he wanted just by increasing pressure. As you likely gather, I'm hoping to obtain some better action without having to get too deep and anyway not looking to hot rod the trans too much. A bit higher shifting points and downshift action w/o having to floor the pedal. You guys obviously know your stuff a lot more than me but if this sounds like a way to do it I'll give the line adj a try and see what goes before thinking more deep...thx
A new member "safetyguy" posted a question to me by PM viewing our posts; he is a new member wasn't sure on all the navigating yet so posting his question for him:
I really want to stop the trans leaks on my '63 Sport Fury! I have a 318 Poly Head with a push button transmission. Tried straightening the original pan with new gasket and bolts, still leaks. Has anyone installed the Moroso Pan #42080 with the #93110 gasket? Checking one of the fitment guides, it said these were for 1964 and on. Will they work on my '63 application as well?
I really want to stop the trans leaks on my '63 Sport Fury! I have a 318 Poly Head with a push button transmission. Tried straightening the original pan with new gasket and bolts, still leaks. Has anyone installed the Moroso Pan #42080 with the #93110 gasket? Checking one of the fitment guides, it said these were for 1964 and on. Will they work on my '63 application as well?
moes
Well-Known Member
yes that is it. you will know if you turned it to much, when the transmission will not shift
Hmmm....if this happens I guess I no longer can moan about fast shifting...
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