Alignment at home and aftermarket UCAS too.

[Kern Dog]

Just on the right side.
When I first measured the right side after aiming for maximum caster, I got a great number but resulted in too little negative camber.
The front cam bolt was out all the way, the rear was in all the way. I was at the limit of adjustment. Adding negative camber through the use of the spacers was a cheap fix.

 

[64fury74charger]

Just on the right side.
When I first measured the right side after aiming mor maximum caster, I got a great number but resulted in too little negative camber.
The front cam bolt was out all the way, the rear was in all the way. I was at the limit of adjustment

Thank you for clarifying this for me. And thanks again for sharing your experience with us. Your threads are always appreciated and helpful and fun to follow along with.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Thanks for the nice words.
Your adapter is an excellent idea! I will make something like that for my cars.
Thank you for that too.

Go easy on the welding - to much heat will warp the plate steel. I just tack welded the nut.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Great info. Carry on, but please put the car back on the lift (since you've now driven it with the new settings and the lift is at your own house) and give things a visual once over to confirm it all still looks ok. Only saying this since the alignment/wrong adjustment issue with my car did not immediately reveal itself.

 

[Kern Dog]

Great info. Carry on, but please put the car back on the lift (since you've now driven it with the new settings and the lift is at your own house) and give things a visual once over to confirm it all still looks ok. Only saying this since the alignment/wrong adjustment issue with my car did not immediately reveal itself.

I have looked at the suspension and steering and have been over it numerous times. The UCA cam bolts are tight. The tie rod lock nuts are tight. The idler and pitman arms were undisturbed and still in place.
I don’t see any cause for worry. The tie rod ends thread into the sleeves by over an inch. When you consider that the tie rod ends have 16 threads per inch, I'd have to spin the sleeve 16 times to get it to fall out. I barely spun the left side at all and the right maybe 2 revolutions?
I don't understand what could have been done to the Plymouth. I'm hearing it from you who heard it from another person. I have also noticed that most times, a mechanic seems to bad mouth the work of another mechanic. That may not have been the case with you but I have experienced the bad mouthing with plumbers, electricians, mechanics and other service people that follow another person's work.
The last guy really screwed this up!
I'm anxious to make that adapter and see what numbers I get with the other cars.
It is hot though today...103 or so.

 

[kreauto]

Kern Dog when you weld your nut on the plate, clamp it flat so the opposite side doesn’t pick up. On my rim clamps I would rotate wheel assembly upside down and adjust for runout with a thumb wheel until it was zero. That meant the rim clamp was true to the spindle and hub. On my one set of RMS arms I had to cut 1/2” of threaded tubing off the left side rear arm so I could thread the heim end in farther to get more positive caster. I too believe these cars move even without being in a wreck.

 

[Kern Dog]

Kern Dog when you weld your nut on the plate, clamp it flat so the opposite side doesn’t pick up.

I was inspired to make my own adapter so off I went.

I found a 1/4” steel plate in the pile then cut and shaped it to be round.

I tacked the washer, then the nut. I held them in place with clamps.
I only tacked them.
THEN I tested it for accuracy.

It isn’t. This is the high spot as noted by the black mark on the outer edge. Note that it reads 1 1/4 degrees negative on the camber. I rotated it 1/4 turn….

Now I’m at 3/4 degree negative. Next I am 180 degrees/half turn from the low point.

Maybe 1/4 degree?
Three quarters of a turn.

Maybe 7/8 degree?
I was careful to just tack weld but I still ended up with warp or runout, whatever you’d call it. I could mark the 1/4 and 3/4 spots since they are closest together… and consider them top dead center and bottom dead center. From there I’d have a variance of just 1/8 a degree.
I don’t know if I could weld with any greater skill to avoid warpage. I put feeler gauges in between the base and adapter at the low point. .024 got me square. Maybe the plate already had a slight bend to it and I didn’t see it.
Hey…. I was a carpenter where if you’re within 1/8”, you were doing great! This micro- inch stuff is hard.

I’m thinking that my cleanup pass with the grinder here could have contributed.

Maybe I can tap it with a hammer to tune it up?

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I have looked at the suspension and steering and have been over it numerous times. The UCA cam bolts are tight. The tie rod lock nuts are tight. The idler and pitman arms were undisturbed and still in place.
I don’t see any cause for worry. The tie rod ends thread into the sleeves by over an inch. When you consider that the tie rod ends have 16 threads per inch, I'd have to spin the sleeve 16 times to get it to fall out. I barely spun the left side at all and the right maybe 2 revolutions?
I don't understand what could have been done to the Plymouth. I'm hearing it from you who heard it from another person. I have also noticed that most times, a mechanic seems to bad mouth the work of another mechanic. That may not have been the case with you but I have experienced the bad mouthing with plumbers, electricians, mechanics and other service people that follow another person's work.
The last guy really screwed this up!
I'm anxious to make that adapter and see what numbers I get with the other cars.
It is hot though today...103 or so.

Cool, now that I know you inspected things after the test drive I feel better.
My car issue wasn't hearsay or bad mouthing. I didn't bring it to my normal shop for nothing! I had to take it there because there were strange sounds and steering feel after 50 miles or so after the 1st shop did their work. Alex spotted it first on a test drive with me there, then I took it in and they found the issue and fixed it. I wish I could remember exactly what the first shop did wrong.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes the “bad mouthing the last guy” is legitimate. I bad mouthed the shop that last aligned my car. They did align it but lied about the numbers, probably because they figured I’d never find out.

This adapter…

I put the gauge on it with the adapter as you see here and tried to equalize the position of the bubble:

If I spun the adapter and the bubble stayed at 3/4, I’d know the adapter was square.
I tried to straighten it by tapping on the face of the plate but the welded on the washer came loose.

It is galvanized so I didn’t get good penetration with the weld.
I found a regular steel washer and thicker nut….

Now I can spin the adapter wheel and stay within 1/8 of a degree. I’m going to call that good.
The nut is tall so it will likely butt into the bearing nut already on the spindle. Ideally, the flat disc would rest right against the edge of the hub.
Below is the Dr Diff setup in the red car, Ginger.

The stock cast iron rotors seem to have a taller collar around the spindle.

What if the adapter were screwed on with the nut to the outside? Hmmm....I'll test fit this tomorrow.

 

[Charlie Brown]

I was inspired to make my own adapter so off I went.

View attachment 1675235

I found a 1/4” steel plate in the pile then cut and shaped it to be round.

View attachment 1675236

I tacked the washer, then the nut. I held them in place with clamps.
I only tacked them.
THEN I tested it for accuracy.

View attachment 1675241

It isn’t. This is the high spot as noted by the black mark on the outer edge. Note that it reads 1 1/4 degrees negative on the camber. I rotated it 1/4 turn….

View attachment 1675242

Now I’m at 3/4 degree negative. Next I am 180 degrees/half turn from the low point.

View attachment 1675244

Maybe 1/4 degree?
Three quarters of a turn.


View attachment 1675245

Maybe 7/8 degree?
I was careful to just tack weld but I still ended up with warp or runout, whatever you’d call it. I could mark the 1/4 and 3/4 spots since they are closest together… and consider them top dead center and bottom dead center. From there I’d have a variance of just 1/8 a degree.
I don’t know if I could weld with any greater skill to avoid warpage. I put feeler gauges in between the base and adapter at the low point. .024 got me square. Maybe the plate already had a slight bend to it and I didn’t see it.
Hey…. I was a carpenter where if you’re within 1/8”, you were doing great! This micro- inch stuff is hard.

View attachment 1675256

I’m thinking that my cleanup pass with the grinder here could have contributed.

View attachment 1675267

Maybe I can tap it with a hammer to tune it up?

I was inspired to make my own adapter so off I went.

View attachment 1675235

I found a 1/4” steel plate in the pile then cut and shaped it to be round.

View attachment 1675236

I tacked the washer, then the nut. I held them in place with clamps.
I only tacked them.
THEN I tested it for accuracy.

View attachment 1675241

It isn’t. This is the high spot as noted by the black mark on the outer edge. Note that it reads 1 1/4 degrees negative on the camber. I rotated it 1/4 turn….

View attachment 1675242

Now I’m at 3/4 degree negative. Next I am 180 degrees/half turn from the low point.

View attachment 1675244

Maybe 1/4 degree?
Three quarters of a turn.


View attachment 1675245

Maybe 7/8 degree?
I was careful to just tack weld but I still ended up with warp or runout, whatever you’d call it. I could mark the 1/4 and 3/4 spots since they are closest together… and consider them top dead center and bottom dead center. From there I’d have a variance of just 1/8 a degree.
I don’t know if I could weld with any greater skill to avoid warpage. I put feeler gauges in between the base and adapter at the low point. .024 got me square. Maybe the plate already had a slight bend to it and I didn’t see it.
Hey…. I was a carpenter where if you’re within 1/8”, you were doing great! This micro- inch stuff is hard.

View attachment 1675256

I’m thinking that my cleanup pass with the grinder here could have contributed.

View attachment 1675267

Maybe I can tap it with a hammer to tune it up?

Greg,
You will note that my plate is solid and has only a 1/8 inch hole in it. This will align the gauge with the center of the spindle. My gauge has a small centering rod at the magnetic end - not sure if your gauge has one or not. I'm not even sure perfect spindle alignment is required, but it eliminates one more variable.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Man, you take some great photos. Keep 'em coming!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Couple of things...
First Mercedes has used as much as 19 degrees of caster of their cars... I think they might know a little about what works..

Second these nuts

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

would get you away from the wheel center a little further..

Third if you happen to find yourself near a lathe that plate attached to a nut could be precisely trued up very quickly....

 

[Kern Dog]

Sometimes, the first effort is not the best nor the final version.
My first paint gun and welder were both cheap. My first car and wife were not the best stuff either.
This adapter may be just like that...Basic and functional but not the best that I can do. Improvements may follow.

 

[64fury74charger]

Great KD, looking at what you have learned from the initial prototype you can fine tune that adapter and knowing how accurate it will be to dial in your own alignment.

 

[6872n73]

How did the two turning plates arrangement work for ya?
Did you use grease?

 

[Kern Dog]

How did the two turning plates arrangement work for ya?
Did you use grease?

Yes sir!

 

[Kern Dog]

Test run with the adapter.

I got the grease cap off along with the cotter pin and retainer. I cleaned the rim of the hub.

The goal was to get the plate to rest against the hub flange here.

Which direction do I install it?

With the nut facing out, the plate can sit deeper but…

The plate hits the lug nuts before resting on the hub flange. I could cut the plate down to fit inside the bolt circle. For now though:

It clears everything this way. I don’t know if being on the spindle itself without resting on the hub matters much but I feel more comfortable with resting on the hub. Why? I figured that if the nut on it was welded on out of square even a slight amount, the runout would make the plate deliver inconsistent readings.
Maybe I’m overthinking it but it seems that by running the whole thing down to the hub, it seems like it would be more accurate.
Here is a test. See the reading here?

 

[Kern Dog]

I hit my picture limit in that last post. Here we go…

That looks like just shy of 1 1/4 degrees of negative camber.
Now with the gauge right against the hub.

Dang. That looks so close, I can’t tell if there is a difference.
This reading is on the drivers side of this car:

I have the UCA cam bolts set like I always do. The rear bolt is in, the front bolt is out. This is a lot of negative camber. What is the caster?
With the car on the greased turn plates…

Since this is a home-brewed budget affair, I have no precise “degree chart” to go by. The procedure is for the left side, you turn the wheel to the LEFT 20 degrees. You then look at the camber part of the gauge and adjust it to zero.
Next is to turn the wheel to the right of center 20 degrees. The bonehead way to estimate 20 degrees is to turn the wheel until this is parallel with the car.

The reading?

A bit blurry but that is approximately 4 1/4 degrees of caster. That is amazing for stock parts. Now I’m wondering if these control arms have offset bushings in them. Next, right side.

 

[Kern Dog]

Right side.

Not much camber.

Maybe 1/4 degree but look at the caster…,

6 3/8 degrees?

This seems familiar….

Ginger also had the same sort of thing going on. Lots of caster but not much camber. For the red car, I put those washers in between the knuckle and lower ball joint and got it to 1.0 degree negative camber and 8 degrees of caster. I’ll never get 8 degrees without aftermarket UCAs but wow…this was a surprise. Now I’m really curious about the bushings in these arms. I thought they were the standard ones but with caster numbers like this, I suspect that they are the offset ones. I assembled the front end in late fall/early winter 2020. I don’t know if I wrote about it on my Jigsaw notebook.

 

[Demonx2]

Great read KD!! I enjoyed following along your adventures as I have been down this path too. I use a "Joe's Racing" alignment bubble gauge which is the same as your Longacre gauge.

For the 20 degrees, I simply put a long straight edge on the tire and mark the floor with a piece of tape. Then turn the wheel and mark the floor again. Measure the angle between them until you get your 20*. For doing this, I have 2 straight edges with a piano hinge between them that I open to 20*. I think you can picture how you can use it to line up/go to 20* turn in each direction. The tape on the floor is so you can repeat it for confirmation/repeatability tests.

As for centering the steering wheel by turning the tie rod ends, just might be worth mentioning that your suspension gain can change when you do this. Since I used this on my street/strip car, I was measuring/setting alignment based on a certain amount of front end rise (per the Mopar Performance Chassis Manual). And with a differing length of tie rod, you can see where the camber/toe change is different when you adjust those tie rod sleeves. Not the end of the world, just something to be aware of if you have to spin them a bunch.

I used the SPC UCA's from Peter Bergman which made setting caster and camber a breeze. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!! They are really nice and in 2 years, the lock nuts have stayed tight without retorqueing. FWIW.

Anyhow, thx for your excellent documentary and great pics. Well done!!