Aluminum Radiator Options

[Billccm]

I am observing on days that are >100F degrees with my Vintage Air on and idling in drive at long traffic lights the coolant climbs to 205F QUICKLY! Shifting to Neutral will drop it to 200F. Driving/moving I stay around 190F.

My set up is a Modine aftermarket factory style radiator, shroud, and direct drive fan. It sort of looks like a flex fan set up.

I have a ECP on my Road Runner and other than fitment headaches it is a good product. FYI ECP radiators are now $380 plus shipping. I would rather try the 'eBay radiator' if fitment is better.

Having said all this I am watching this tread and hoping to learn and gather advice. My Vintage Air is working well, although yesterday it was 108F and I had to keep the blower at MAX to stay comfortable. That Vintage Air blower is LOUD!!!

EDIT: My 1967 Coronet was a factory air car.

 

[HEMIB]

This is my Cold Case leaks between the filler neck & radiator tank contacted CC sent pictures when they found out I was in Australia they disappeared I will have to have the filler neck tig welded to the tank to stop the leak I have 3 x CC only one that leaks

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Let's see some actual temperature numbers instead of speculation that proves your premise. Remember....it's the number of fins per inch (between the tubes) that does the cooling not the size of the tubes......
BOB RENTON

It's both - fins and tube outer surface area. Tubes pull heat from the coolant as they're located in the core, then the fins shed the heat outside the core.

 

[RJRENTON]

It's both - fins and tube outer surface area. Tubes pull heat from the coolant as they're located in the core, then the fins shed the heat outside the core.

Its obvious that you don't understand the principles of thermodynamics. SURFACE AREA, VELOCITY AND TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCES, along with the specific heat characteristics of the coolant are the most important factors. The tubes simply convey the coolant from the inlet header to the outlet header. The WWW folded fins between the tubes is where the actual heat exchange takes place. As I use to design heat exchangers, gas to gas, gas to liquid and liquid to liquid, the same principles apply.
BOB RENTON

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Its obvious that you don't understand the principles of thermodynamics. SURFACE AREA, VELOCITY AND TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCES, along with the specific heat characteristics of the coolant are the most important factors. The tubes simply convey the coolant from the inlet header to the outlet header. The WWW folded fins between the tubes is where the actual heat exchange takes place. As I use to design heat exchangers, gas to gas, gas to liquid and liquid to liquid, the same principles apply.
BOB RENTON

I do understand it. "Most" may be true, but the total tube surface diameter still contributes, not just the fin surface area. I respect your knowledge and mean no disrespect, but I've read up on it as well.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

It's easy to be misunderstood with no verbal communication and a computer screen between us. Here's a good summary that clarifies how both the tubes and fins help in cooling:

The science behind radiator operation revolves around two fundamental principles of heat transfer: convection and conduction. Convection refers to the transfer of heat through the movement of fluids or gases. In the case of radiators, the coolant absorbs heat from the engine, creating convection currents that carry the heat to the radiator’s surface. As the air passes over the fins, it absorbs the heat, effectively cooling the coolant.
Conduction, on the other hand, is the direct transfer of heat between solid objects. In radiators, conduction occurs as the hot coolant comes into contact with the metal tubes and fins, transferring the heat to the surrounding air.
The Science Behind Cool: How Radiators Keep Engines in Check - M&N Absolute Auto Repair

There's also the importance of the surface contact area of the solder or brazed joint between the tubes and fins for heat conduction. This is very important and one of the primary reasons larger tubes work well.

 

[khryslerkid]

Let's see some actual temperature numbers instead of speculation that proves your premise. Remember....it's the number of fins per inch (between the tubes) that does the cooling not the size of the tubes......
BOB RENTON

I read alot and you can too. Just on this site I've noticed more with the three rows don't seem to cool as well as the 1"tube x two rows. Maybe close to the same surface area on the tubes as a three row but more air can get through a two row. Just spit balling.

The ECP outfit claim their's will cool better...

Like all of our radiators, it's made with proven 2-rows of 1.0" tubes that is proven to out cool 3-row and 4-row aluminum radiators by a substantial amount.

22" Mopar BIG BLOCK HD Aluminum Radiator

 

[Tyron68]

The lesson I've tried to learn is not to throw parts at a problem trying to hit a solution. I've done that a lot in my lifetime and find that it's much more satisfying to diagnose a problem correctly and replace just what's necessary. A new radiator will only fix a problem if the old radiator was the problem! It's not fun to spend $200 or $600. on a new part just to find out that you still have a problem. Buy or borrow a mechanical gauge to determine if you have a problem. Don't base a diagnosis on what a 50-60 year old factory gauge shows.
One thing I forgot is to make sure the rubber seal is in place at the top front of the radiator/core support so that incoming air doesn't dive up and over the radiator instead of through it.

Totally understand the expenditure part of it. This hobby is not cheap. You have a pic of the rubber seal at the top front of radiator? I don’t think I have that.

 

[beanhead]

When ambient temps get high, so will the engine temp, that's a fact of life. The radiator using 85 degree air is a far cry from it using 100+ degree air, as far as what you'll see on the temp gauge.
Another thing that never gets mentioned, is road surface temps and heat radiation.
On a 100 degree day, asphalt temps can reach up over 160....that heat radiates upwards and is partially what gets sucked into our radiators, as the grill and bumper vents aren't all that far away from the road surface.
As well as my system cools my 600ish 505" in 90 or less degree weather (never gets over 180) it will climb to 200-205 when I spend lots of time in town, with multiple shut down/heat soaks in summer 100+.
Not worried at all. As long as your temp isn't climbing to 215-220 or more, it's not a problem.
The issue is with a carbureted engine, power/response/efficiency WILL be affected, that's another fact of life (and why I will be going EFI shortly..)

 

[RJRENTON]

When ambient temps get high, so will the engine temp, that's a fact of life. The radiator using 85 degree air is a far cry from it using 100+ degree air, as far as what you'll see on the temp gauge.
Another thing that never gets mentioned, is road surface temps and heat radiation.
On a 100 degree day, asphalt temps can reach up over 160....that heat radiates upwards and is partially what gets sucked into our radiators, as the grill and bumper vents aren't all that far away from the road surface.
As well as my system cools my 600ish 505" in 90 or less degree weather (never gets over 180) it will climb to 200-205 when I spend lots of time in town, with multiple shut down/heat soaks in summer 100+.
Not worried at all. As long as your temp isn't climbing to 215-220 or more, it's not a problem.
The issue is with a carbureted engine, power/response/efficiency WILL be affected, that's another fact of life (and why I will be going EFI shortly..)

Correct.......but there are the people would "fix" the high temp issues by installing a 160° F t-stat, then wonder why nothing changes. The second law of thermodynamics states the greater the temperature difference, the more heat is exchanged ....Q (Heat) = M (mass in gallons/ min or some quantifiable unit) x Cp (specific heat characteristics of the heat exchange media) x delta T (temperature differences) in Btu / Hr.
BOB RENTON

 

[Tyron68]

I have used the ECP 26" radiator in my two '70 Chargers.

View attachment 1677781

The stock 26" shroud fits. This was under $300 shipped to my place. It uses stock hoses and has a trans cooler.

You happens to have a part number for the ECP radiator? Are you running a 440?

 

[Tyron68]

I'm also running a ECP with a Flowkooler and have been impressed how it keeps the engine at the right temperature range , even in stop and go traffic.

View attachment 1677963

Happen to have a part number for both (ecp and flowkooler)? Are you running a 440 as well?

 

[Billccm]

Keep in mind the ECP may require modifications for fitment. It's a good performing product, but unless you have some fab skills it's not plug and play.

 

[Tyron68]

See this?



THIS is a man trying to help. Members that go out of their way to help you find your way are a great asset to the

Colorado Dave has provided a ton of good information. Very appreciative to everyone who has provided info. Good people on these forums.

 

[Tyron68]

I am observing on days that are >100F degrees with my Vintage Air on and idling in drive at long traffic lights the coolant climbs to 205F QUICKLY! Shifting to Neutral will drop it to 200F. Driving/moving I stay around 190F.

My set up is a Modine aftermarket factory style radiator, shroud, and direct drive fan. It sort of looks like a flex fan set up.

I have a ECP on my Road Runner and other than fitment headaches it is a good product. FYI ECP radiators are now $380 plus shipping. I would rather try the 'eBay radiator' if fitment is better.

Having said all this I am watching this tread and hoping to learn and gather advice. My Vintage Air is working well, although yesterday it was 108F and I had to keep the blower at MAX to stay comfortable. That Vintage Air blower is LOUD!!!

EDIT: My 1967 Coronet was a factory air car.

I am going to try the neutral trick this weekend at stop lights.

 

[Tyron68]

So is there anyone that is using a high flow water pump (Kwikool has come up a bunch) with a stock 26" radiator or do most use the hi-flow pump with aluminum radiator upgrade?

 

[Tyron68]

Happen to have a part number for both (ecp and flowkooler)? Are you running a 440 as well?

I found the part number on the water pump so disregard that.

 

[RJRENTON]

So is there anyone that is using a high flow water pump (Kwikool has come up a bunch) with a stock 26" radiator or do most use the hi-flow pump with aluminum radiator upgrade?

WHAT FLOW RATES ARE YOU REFERING TO? Flow is based on the pump's capacity at a specified RPM.....the term "high flow" means nothing unless you can provide some numbers like gallons/minute or liters/minute. You need to state what you're comparing....standard flow rate vs "high flow" rate. Remember the higher the flow rate promotes higher fluid velocities and better heat exchange and it does not matter if the radiator is OEM or aluminum but the SERVICE AREA of the radiator.....the greater the surface area, the more heat is exchanged.
BOB RENTON

 

[Kern Dog]

You happens to have a part number for the ECP radiator? Are you running a 440?

I do not have part numbers for either one. I just spoke with the man and told him what I had and the hose configuration.

Keep in mind the ECP may require modifications for fitment. It's a good performing product, but unless you have some fab skills it's not plug and play.

There were no modifications needed. The radiators fit the 26” openings of my cars. Stock shrouds fit too.

 

[Billccm]

I had to grind away relief to clear the battery tray and clear the inner fender pinch area. Also, factory shroud holes didn't align and required redrilling.

I noticed on the ECP web store they now have drawings for the radiator, so you can match these dimensions to what you have in your application.