• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Ammeter Quick Question and 95 AMP alternator question

If anything, here is a great argument for not keeping the ammeter (or rebuilding an original vs OER) or you'll bend it with a high output alternator. :)
Really? Sounds more like a pretty good argument not to use reproduction ammeters. Simply adding a higher output alternator, in it of itself, is not going change current flow through the ammeter, certainty will not bend needles on an original ammeter. The original ammeters from this time are stoutly constructed, can handle a great deal of current when the stud connections/insulators are in good shape, not abused.
 
Really? Sounds more like a pretty good argument not to use reproduction ammeters. Simply adding a higher output alternator, in it of itself, is not going change current flow through the ammeter, certainty will not bend needles on an original ammeter. The original ammeters from this time are stoutly constructed, can handle a great deal of current when the stud connections/insulators are in good shape, not abused.
I completely agree! I was wondering if you used something like a 100amp cop car ammeter from back then it would have similar build quality. But you would probably not reach the 100amp full scale so the needle would not peg and get bent.
I also found a few posts about the same thing of bent ammeter needles since my last post so feeling a little less nuts. Great threads on a corvette forum and model a forum describing similar things. Oh well they don’t build them like they used to. I’ve had an OER ammeter & Speedo crap out in less than a year.
 
I run a 70A powermaster alternator with the MAD electrical upgrade (solid wire thru bulkhead and Ammeter converted to Voltmeter) and had Shannon at Redline rebuild my gauge cluster. I was running a stock Voltage Regulator. In less than a year, after ignoring my Voltmeter reading hanging out around 15-16V most of the time, my temp gauge and fuel gauge quit working. After consulting with a few others and reviewing the stock non-ralley gauge wiring diagram, I determined it was due to the stock Voltage regulator mixed with 70A alternator. I swapped the VR for an adjustable unit and got it dialed down to 14.0V while running, added new aftermarket gauges until I have time to rebuild the stock unit again, and all has been good ever since. You really need an adjustable Voltage Regulator.
 
I run a 70A powermaster alternator with the MAD electrical upgrade (solid wire thru bulkhead and Ammeter converted to Voltmeter) and had Shannon at Redline rebuild my gauge cluster. I was running a stock Voltage Regulator. In less than a year, after ignoring my Voltmeter reading hanging out around 15-16V most of the time, my temp gauge and fuel gauge quit working. After consulting with a few others and reviewing the stock non-ralley gauge wiring diagram, I determined it was due to the stock Voltage regulator mixed with 70A alternator. I swapped the VR for an adjustable unit and got it dialed down to 14.0V while running, added new aftermarket gauges until I have time to rebuild the stock unit again, and all has been good ever since. You really need an adjustable Voltage Regulator.
Do you have the model/brand of the regulator?
 
I think the initial high current draw is likely the result of a "less than new" battery and a "high output" alternator. After starting your RR the battery is a little depleted and the fact that the current goes down reasonable soon indicates that the charging system is working as it should. I installed a TuffStuff 135 amp alternator with a built on regulator (one wire system), replaced all charge path wiring with new 8 ga wire and bypassed the connectors on the firewall but I still use the stock amp meter in my 73 B100 Van, this fixed and greatly improved my electrical system when the van is running above 1000 rpm, unfortunately the TuffStuff regulator does not turn on until approximately 1000 rpm, and I set my idle at 750 so my Van discharge's while idling, not related to your concerns...
I also recommend bypassing the firewall connector, it was not the greatest design to begin with but as said before, now that you have more current flowing through the firewall the connections are now getting hotter and you dont want a melt down (see attached internet photo).
My Van is far from stock so I had no problem modifying it to accommodate bigger wires. Most Mopar mods actually drill out the connector location that originally passed the high current through the firewall but I had an un-used "blank" connector on my Van so I drilled holes and routed my new wires through the blank connector, see attached photos...

PXL_20221205_171109777.jpg


IMG_0549.JPG


Firewall Juntion BlockInternet Pic.jpg
 
^^ Thanks! I appreciate the help! I love seeing all of the mods people have done.
 
FWIW I did the fleet by-pass with 10 gauge wire, used Crackedback’s kit and LEDs everywhere but the headlights, which are OEM seal beams, with no problems with a stock 60 amp alternator. I put an amp clamp meter on and get 15 amps at idle, in gear @775 rpm, no lights. With lights on I get 17 amps at idle. My total draw is 9.68 amps with lights on. The LEDs and the headlight relays (sourced from the alternator) reduced the electrical load on the system and no dimming of headlights at idle. My electrical system is totally stock. For me, I’m satisfied with my electrical performance with the ammeter in place and the bulkhead connectors by-passed.

By the way Crackedback’s kit is excellent.
 
..I did the fleet by-pass with 10 gauge wire, used Crackedback’s kit and LEDs everywhere but the headlights, which are OEM seal beams, with no problems with a stock 60 amp alternator....
To be clear Crackedback’s charge circuit by-pass kit would not be considered as the factory “fleet by-pass” as discussed here. As I understand it, his kit by-passes the ammeter, defeating it’s purpose altogether. The later factory fleet by-pass is a bulkhead connection by-pass, the ammeter remains in the circuit and functional.

On the headlights, headlight relays will greatly benefit even stock headlamps, removes quite a bit of voltage drop (bulkhead connections, headlight switch, foot dimer switch, and related connectors) between the lamps and the power source. They will be brighter under any operating conditions.
 
Last edited:
I did not mean to imply your diagrams were from MAD. They were different and VERY helpful! I'm a techie by nature I need to see things in manuals so when I found the Fleet Diagrams, I got excited and wanted to share. :)
Sure, but I meant I took it from the manuals and floated on explaining them to help to ppl on understand how and why it works, not from MAD
 
Last edited:
To be clear Crackedback’s charge circuit by-pass kit would not be considered as the factory “fleet by-pass” as discussed here. As I understand it, his kit by-passes the ammeter, defeating it’s purpose altogether. The later factory fleet by-pass is a bulkhead connection by-pass, the ammeter remains in the circuit and functional.

On the headlights, headlight relays will greatly benefit even stock headlamps, removes quite a bit of voltage drop between the lamps and the power source. They will be brighter under any operating conditions.
My fleet by-pass took the charge wires from alternator through the firewall to the ammeter and from the ammeter back through the firewall to the starter relay. The bulkhead was by-passed. My ammeter remains in the circuit and fully functional. Crackedback’s kit was headlights only.
 
Sure, but I meant I took it from the manuals and floated on explaining them to help to ppl on understand how and why it works, not from MAD
No worries! Your diagrams made perfect sense after I read it a few times. Especially where you talk about a better or upgraded ammeter.
 
Last edited:
I just reread some replies... somebody said "bent needle"... I'd like to see that, because there is no way to bend an amm needle. The needle doesn't have anything to stop his movement into the gauge, but is attached ( by friction/pressure ) to the counterweight what moves to the magnetic field created by the load running throught the ammeter. Worst that could happen to the needle is loose the indexing getting free from the counterweight. This is a proove lot of ppl doesn't really know about how it works this system and their comments play on several boards like true statements and myths.

About the ammeter reinforcemement. This is a job I made to a 70 Charger in Venezuela which was getting constantly without batt charge and I had to get back it on the road couple of times... sure, the studs were loosen from ammeter inside and it was really close to get shorted to ground due the insulation conditions, althout pic is not mine and I found this pic years later I fixed the Charger 70 ammeter.

On this fix, who made this job made and suggested to part out the gauge to not affect to the magnet quality when heating the brass and studs to stick the lead, which could affect of course the gauge appreciation/calibration. Actually if the brass and studs are clean enough or if you clean them enough using the soldering past or even some sandpaper or dremmel stone if studs are already loosen, you won't need a lot of heat to get the lead attached to the parts soldeing both pieces. Is what I made on the ammeter I fixed and worked like a champ after that. I used a 40W soldering iron. And didn't need that ammount of lead like the one on pic.

After this job and getting the propper Alternator, contacts on ammeter are solid enough to allow a good current path without any risk of any heat on them to melt the lead, since the resistance posibilities is close to zero.
Then of course refresh the ammeter insulators to the cluster housing ( inner and outer ), clean stud threads, nuts, eyelet terminals to the wires running to ammeter and VERY IMPORTANT: when tighten up the amm nuts, HOLD THE LOWER NUT WHILE TIGHTENING UP THE TOP NUT. Two wrenches for this or a wrech and a deep socket ( 3/8" ). This is another tipical mistake made when reasembling ammeter. The bottom nut barelly tights up to the cluster to keep the ammeter in place THEN you tight up the wires BETWEEN NUTS, not against the cluster. If you don't hold the bottom nut will make to spin the studs inside bending the internal ammeter path to the current ( &/or will break the insulation), loosening and once again, getting a new ammeter problem... then will blame again to the gauge and not to the assembly procedure.

BTW... I think this same pic I'm using to show the soldering job was made from the same thread somebody mentioned here about using brass sleeves on studs or something like that. Actually no need for that, but quite enough to solder these ends to refresh the ammeter life. I think the thread was called "bullet proof ammeter" at dodge talk forum or something like that.

Once again, no need this ammount of lead shown on pic ( sorry, blurry pic... it is what it is ), but just enough to keep the studs and brass contact without any resistance probability, even better cleanning internal surfaces to be sure the contacts are on internal faces and soldering once get hot by the soldering iron. "Leading" first the surfaces, then getting them together and heating will require less heating time to get them soldered.

solderedA.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ok, it was me! I said bent. Maybe I should have said not in zero position with battery disconnected. It used to sit in the middle. I just went and took a pic. Now it sits here with battery off and when car is driving and not discharging/charging. This is the new zero position. Thanks as always!

46C227BC-AAE9-4AC7-9B20-663BF108C3CC.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Ok.Well, is clear you are the guy who is asking and now understand why it was stated that LOL, logically you are learning :thumbsup:. The problem is the needle lost its indexing position againts the counterweight, that's all. To fix it just will need to remove the gauge and relocate the needle.

This is a basic ilustration about what I'm talking about where the orange triangle is the counterweight what moves with the current going throught the ammeter and the magnetic field variation due that reason and the red is the needle. They are basically just laped one over the other.

It could have happened due a violent move of the counterweight due some high and violent charge or discharge reading, specially considering the age of the gauge and the posibility the heat it got along the years could got somehow streched the metal to loose the surface friction between both metal sheets ( needle and counterweight ) what keeps them in place.

amm counterweight.jpg
 
Last edited:
Ok.Well, is clear you are the guy who is asking and now understand why it was stated that LOL, logically you are learning :thumbsup:. The problem is the needle lost its indexing position againts the counterweight, that's all. To fix it just will need to remove the gauge and relocate the needle.

This is a basic ilustration about what I'm talking about where the orange triangle is the counterweight what moves with the current going throught the ammeter and the magnetic field variation due that reason and the red is the needle. They are basically just laped one over the other.

It could have happened due a violent move of the counterweight, specially considering the age of the gauge and the posibility the heat it got along the years could got somehow streched the metal to loose the surface friction between both metal sheets ( needle and counterweight ) what keeps them in place.

View attachment 1383999
Thanks as always!!! That is the new OER gauge. It only made it 80 miles!
 
woah!... well... the same, it could happened something like that
I did buy this NOS one for a rainy day. :) I might never get around to it, and I'd need to switch out faces or make new labels, but I figure it might provide a higher reading.

s-l5002.png
 
Last edited:
I did buy this NOS one for a rainy day. :) I might never get around to it, and I'd need to switch out faces or make new labels, but I figure it might provide a higher reading.

View attachment 1384051
That ammeter is designed to use an external shunt, movement is completely different, not a direct replacement for the ’70 rallye dash ammeter.
shunted ammeter.jpg



You need to locate one of these with this movement for a somewhat direct replacement, with an internal shunt for double the scale;
ammeter80.JPG
ammeter80shunt.JPG


The OP's ammeter is a OER reproduction, it uses a movement very different in construction from the original ammeter;
OER ammeter.jpg


If it is not centering on its own when current is not flowing, likely an internal failure of some kind.
 
Last edited:
That ammeter is designed to use an external shunt, movement is completely different, not a direct replacement for the ’70 rallye dash ammeter.
View attachment 1384061


You need to locate one of these with this movement for a somewhat direct replacement, with an internal shunt for double the scale;
View attachment 1384065View attachment 1384066

The OP's ammeter is a OER reproduction, it uses a movement verry different in construction from the original ammeter;
View attachment 1384074

If it is not centering on its own when current is not flowing, likely an internal failure of some kind.
This is why I LOVE this place! :) THANKS!!!!
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top