Another reason not to put Solar Panels on your house... You could have your insurance cancelled... Or double in cost...

[slepr1]

I think you answered you own question. If it was "free" how can it be that you can't afford it?

I got mine for free. The money I save in electricity and LNG is greater than my monthly payments for the system.

he nice thing is the more people that jump on board the better the tech gets and usually the prices will come down

The prices have dropped significantly over the last 10-15 years. Back in the day a panel costs around $1500-$2000 each. Now they are $450 each and made in the USA and warrantied for 25 years. The inverters use to cost $5-8k each and now are under $1k, with a 10 yr warranty. A typical house here in Ontario would need a 10kw system and cost around $22k after grant (or $183 a month with gov loan). That same system would've cost $90-100k back 10-15 years ago.

 

[icetech]

I got mine for free. The money I save in electricity and LNG is greater than my monthly payments for the system.



The prices have dropped significantly over the last 10-15 years. Back in the day a panel costs around $1500-$2000 each. Now they are $450 each and made in the USA and warrantied for 25 years. The inverters use to cost $5-8k each and now are under $1k, with a 10 yr warranty. A typical house here in Ontario would need a 10kw system and cost around $22k after grant (or $183 a month with gov loan). That same system would've cost $90-100k back 10-15 years ago.

wow that has come down a lot

 

[Triplegreen500]

The ROI takes forever to generate a "profit"...and by then, you're replacing worn out components anyway.

Solar is only helpful WHEN the sun is out, unless you have a cellar FULL of batteries to store it for when it's not sunny. Same for the power company - if they wanted to integrate solar into general distribution, they would need whole city BLOCKS full of battery banks, to provide power after dark. Or clouds.

Putting them on the ground is anti-"green", as it covers up lush plant life (grass, trees, bushes) that help COOL the planet, with hard metal and glass panels that HEAT the area.

...there's a reason these things have to be subsidized, in order to gain any traction....

 

[Hey-O]

Free, but you pay a monthly fee. No thanks!

 

[moparwacko]

Solar is the way to go!

But......
In our area, a rooftop system install requires a roof with a minimum 20 year lifespan. No worries, the install company will "arrange" a new roof be installed along with the panels. NO metal roofs allowed! Permits are also required by the local authorities, and cannot be installed on any historical structure. Stand alone (ground mount) will also require permits after feasibility studies.
As a recent Electric Utility retiree, I know there are several laws being placed or in state legislation allowing the amount of "sell back" by residential customers. In real terms you can only sell back the amount of kwh you consume. This will be the future of residential solar, mark my words.
As an example, one of my neighbors had 34 panels installed. His new roof was installed, panels, all associated hardware, metering, etc. All complete his 2nd mortgage for all this was only 37K. Take off 13K for the roof and Federal rebate (too late for mortgage) his monthly payment is just shy of $400.
His "normal" electric bill was $120. He was just beaming when he explained how his electric was now free, oh and he still pays the electric company their $28 monthly service charge for having the capability of using it.
The system is warranted for 15 years.
What a moron

Off the grid is a completely different story. That may actually work.

 

[icetech]

The ROI takes forever to generate a "profit"...and by then, you're replacing worn out components anyway.

Solar is only helpful WHEN the sun is out, unless you have a cellar FULL of batteries to store it for when it's not sunny. Same for the power company - if they wanted to integrate solar into general distribution, they would need whole city BLOCKS full of battery banks, to provide power after dark. Or clouds.

Putting them on the ground is anti-"green", as it covers up lush plant life (grass, trees, bushes) that help COOL the planet, with hard metal and glass panels that HEAT the area.

...there's a reason these things have to be subsidized, in order to gain any traction....

Yes, and they need that traction to get more support to drive the industry forward... the sooner people embrace this the better it is for all of us.

 

[BigFlo]

so the free part comes with getting grants and subsidies and interest free loans. Where does that money come from - your taxes. Nothing is free.
And like others above have said, what is the plan for the millions and millions of panels when they reach their end of life? Is there a plan for that? Dump them in the landfill with all of the toxic ingredients contained in them? That’s eco-friendly. If there is a plan, I would like to know.

 

[kiwigtx]

There's a house about 400 feet away with a solar panel array and when the sun is just right, it's blinding!

You could go to your Council and complain that the owners are damaging your quality of life - much like people who generate high frequency noise affecting other peoples radio reception etc.

 

[Triplegreen500]

Don't forget all the batteries, for those who want electricity so they can turn on lights at night (when the panels don't do dick, and you have to have energy stored somewhere).

The power company doesn't store it. THEY don't have blocks and blocks full of battery warehouses. They GENERATE power.

Solar works when the sun is out.
Wind works when the wind is blowing (within certain wind speeds).
Any other time you want to use power....you have to have it stored somewhere. Or, you have to have another non-dependent form of power generation.

No matter how far the "industry drives forward"...those things are absolutes. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing rainbows and unicorns up your ***. Facts are facts.

 

[icetech]

Don't forget all the batteries, for those who want electricity so they can turn on lights at night (when the panels don't do dick, and you have to have energy stored somewhere).

The power company doesn't store it. THEY don't have blocks and blocks full of battery warehouses. They GENERATE power.

Solar works when the sun is out.
Wind works when the wind is blowing (within certain wind speeds).
Any other time you want to use power....you have to have it stored somewhere. Or, you have to have another non-dependent form of power generation.

No matter how far the "industry drives forward"...those things are absolutes. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing rainbows and unicorns up your ***. Facts are facts.

You still stay connected to the grid... it's not like "Ohh no.. the sun is down... no more power..."

 

[Cranky]

You could go to your Council and complain that the owners are damaging your quality of life - much like people who generate high frequency noise affecting other peoples radio reception etc.

Yup....that thought has crossed my mind. If I were within the Houston city limits, forget it but here in Pasadena, I might have a chance. But just another 'iron in the fire' that needs to be done. I have some trees that are big enough to help block it and within 30 minutes or so, they are not reflecting the sun. That being said, if more people over there decided to do the same thing, then it would become a major problem.

 

[Triplegreen500]

No kidding.

My point is the limitations of solar as a whole; and the same limitations of wind.

They can't, and won't, replace standard power generation methods. If solar or wind were the best choice...THEY are what we'd be using now, primarily. The reason they aren't? Is because the market demanded reliable, efficient, stable power. And wind and solar aren't it. The ROI does not make sense, on any level.

 

[slepr1]

In real terms you can only sell back the amount of kwh you consume. This will be the future of residential solar, mark my words.

They call it Net Metering, available at most electric companies in North America.

As an example, one of my neighbors had 34 panels installed. His new roof was installed, panels, all associated hardware, metering, etc. All complete his 2nd mortgage for all this was only 37K. Take off 13K for the roof and Federal rebate (too late for mortgage) his monthly payment is just shy of $400.
His "normal" electric bill was $120.

His system is way too big for his needs. A 34 panel installation is allot. Most residential applications only need a 20-22 panels. Also, solar savings is calculated to offset your electric bills on a yearly bases, not monthly.

Where does that money come from - your taxes. Nothing is free.

I pay over 6k a year in property taxes and over 5x that amount in total income taxes. I'll participate in anything that gives me a return. Sure its not technically free but all the same. And I don't really care what they do with the wasted panels at the end of the day.

 

[slepr1]

Don't forget all the batteries, for those who want electricity so they can turn on lights at night (when the panels don't do dick, and you have to have energy stored somewhere).

The power company doesn't store it. THEY don't have blocks and blocks full of battery warehouses. They GENERATE power.

Solar works when the sun is out.
Wind works when the wind is blowing (within certain wind speeds).
Any other time you want to use power....you have to have it stored somewhere. Or, you have to have another non-dependent form of power generation.

No matter how far the "industry drives forward"...those things are absolutes. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing rainbows and unicorns up your ***. Facts are facts.

The ROI takes forever to generate a "profit"...and by then, you're replacing worn out components anyway.

Solar is only helpful WHEN the sun is out, unless you have a cellar FULL of batteries to store it for when it's not sunny. Same for the power company - if they wanted to integrate solar into general distribution, they would need whole city BLOCKS full of battery banks, to provide power after dark. Or clouds.

Putting them on the ground is anti-"green", as it covers up lush plant life (grass, trees, bushes) that help COOL the planet, with hard metal and glass panels that HEAT the area.

...there's a reason these things have to be subsidized, in order to gain any traction....

Don't forget all the batteries, for those who want electricity so they can turn on lights at night (when the panels don't do dick, and you have to have energy stored somewhere).

The power company doesn't store it. THEY don't have blocks and blocks full of battery warehouses. They GENERATE power.

Solar works when the sun is out.
Wind works when the wind is blowing (within certain wind speeds).
Any other time you want to use power....you have to have it stored somewhere. Or, you have to have another non-dependent form of power generation.

No matter how far the "industry drives forward"...those things are absolutes. Anyone who tells you differently is pushing rainbows and unicorns up your ***. Facts are facts.

You need to get more educated on the misinformation you are dishing out. Saying facts are facts about your own POV is fake news.

 

[Triplegreen500]

OK, clear it up for us. I'm going on years working with electricity, looking at how much you "save" on a monthly bill versus how much a system costs, the life cycle of the equipment and peripherals, and the plain ol' FACT that solar doesn't generate ANY power in the dark.

Set me straight.

 

[Cranky]

You still stay connected to the grid... it's not like "Ohh no.. the sun is down... no more power..."

From what I understand (oversit?), anything you generate that isn't used the power company pays you back? Still ain't gonna go with solar because I don't use much electricity to start with now that I'm single. My X used to call me 'the mole' because I liked to keep the curtains/blinds closed during the day to keep the sun out. At one point she wanted a 'sun room' that had AC in it too and I just laughed. Maybe that's one of the reasons she left lol. Heck, never was made of money and wasn't about spending it unnecessarily. Go outside by the fake pool and get a burn then come inside to cool off!

 

[Hey-O]

At the end of the day if you don't own it, it's not yours. I lease from someone, they offer to get my roof up to date and if hail beats the rest of my roof up they offer to remove the panels so they can do me another favor and replace my roof and then, put the panels back on and all this is done by one company that is trying to take you home from cradle to grave. All of this the women told me was to make it easier on me. After I beat her into submission, the only thing she had was, don't you want to save the planet. I asked her what they do with the panels when they are done............... they throw them away, I asked her, what about the planet. My utilities don't add up to anything as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BearDodge67]

The ROI takes forever to generate a "profit"...and by then, you're replacing worn out components anyway.

Solar is only helpful WHEN the sun is out, unless you have a cellar FULL of batteries to store it for when it's not sunny. Same for the power company - if they wanted to integrate solar into general distribution, they would need whole city BLOCKS full of battery banks, to provide power after dark. Or clouds.

Putting them on the ground is anti-"green", as it covers up lush plant life (grass, trees, bushes) that help COOL the planet, with hard metal and glass panels that HEAT the area.

...there's a reason these things have to be subsidized, in order to gain any traction....

You've never been out west.. the 15 south from the NV/CA state line is a huge solar array farm, been there for over 10yrs. Go south on the 15 at wrong time of day and it's like staring into the sun.

Prineville, Oregon... 3 array farms to feed the Facebook data center there

Off US 117 outside Phoenix, a huge farm.

outside Barstow, CA is another...

Along the Garden State Parkway in NJ near Wall Township, a farmers field has been converted into a solar farm.

We delivered a trailer load of panels to a huge farm in the midwest, same trucks we saw when getting loaded were in line with us to load

Wanna talk wind? Go once you get past the casinos west on the 10, windmill city.

SW Ontario from Chatham-Windsor burbs, windmill city. Don't talk to farmers abut what it's doing to their well water.

 

[moparwacko]

They call it Net Metering, available at most electric companies in North America.




His system is way too big for his needs. A 34 panel installation is allot. Most residential applications only need a 20-22 panels. Also, solar savings is calculated to offset your electric bills on a yearly bases, not monthly.



I pay over 6k a year in property taxes and over 5x that amount in total income taxes. I'll participate in anything that gives me a return. Sure its not technically free but all the same. And I don't really care what they do with the wasted panels at the end of the day.

I'm not sure we're comparing apples to apples. Canada may be entirely different. Regulations differ state to state and EDC to EDC, and all according to Tarriff rules governed by a PUC. In other words, I live in a state where the local EDC is not allowed to own it's generation source. It must purchase it through private Commercial Generation companies, it merely distributes it. As I mentioned previously, there are large Generation companies lobbying for Net Zero Metering for residential customers/generators which will limit the amount of kwh pushed to buyback to zero. A small solar array cannot guarantee any number of "excess" kwh. The billion $ company who owns 3 coal generating stations and 2 NG peaking plants can. They are the ones gaining traction for net zero, at least here.
Personally I would like to live in a state which hasn't gone through deregulation where it's Distribution companies are wholly owned (Generation and Distribution). The best example I can think of is the TVA, where they generate, then distribute to Co-op's EDC's at cost.
There are other factors in play since the "war on coal/fossil fuel generators" also. This is in the General Discussion, so I'll end with that.

 

[Budnicks]

IMFHO it ain't worth the expense or grief/hassles to do it
you can pay a lot of energy bills, not have the hassles
or added costs, years upon years to pay it off,
rinse & repeat when the **** goes bad, or when it snows
or panels gets dirty & you get no real energy "savings" from any of it,

(not in the long run, it isn't environmentally friendly either)

then the fees
that the energy co. will impose on you for using their grid
& having solar/wind power/surcharges, to make up for their loss
or with that $50k solar install...
how much is your payment for that ?
That's just like "the cost to pay the energy company",
but just more $$$...

Now add dbl the insurance (in some cases)
& new roofing (in some cases, min. stds, must be met)
permit fees, surcharges & dealing with subcontractors
some even have HOAs/cities/co/state restrictions or mandates,
energy co. added surcharges, added taxes

then there's replacing batteries or inverters etc.
they fail to warn or tell you about
it's double that cost over 10 years or less, than the payments last...

IMHFO It ain't worth all that
it will never be 'net zero'
not in either environmental or financial
that's a bullfaced lie, sales pitch/exaggerations
don't believe any of it

from someone that has actually owned solar,
I had it, I lived it, for 10+ years
& not just blindly following what,
someone spewing what the -www- bs said
(like the sheeple/compliant type ideology, that don't have 1st hand experience)
or some lying *** govt. official claims
(or that shyster liar solar salesperson, getting govt. subsidies $$$)
what they "told me (or told you), it would help or do",
it won't & it didn't
they completely lied and exaggerate the "actual benefits/savings"
(lies/BS) compared to actual real costs &/or costs of maintenance
even over short term (10 years)

Don't be/get dupped/conned, be blind followers-sheep
do your due diligence 1st

you can thank me later