Banjo bolt hits!

[YY1]

My 72 has factory disk and sway bar.
I'd be happy to get a pic for you, but it is in storage, so it may be a while.

 

[andyf]

I covered this topic in my B-body book complete with pictures. The trick is to use the correct calipers when rear mounted. The best calipers to use are the ones that the factory engineers designed to be rear mounted. The FMJ cars in the mid-80's went to rear mounted calipers so the engineers designed the castings with a bleeder at the top and the hose entry at the bottom. You'll also need custom hoses to do the job correctly.

By the way, if you don't have an anti-sway bar then just do it the easy way and hang the calipers to the front. Front hung calipers will accept factory brake hoses and everything will work better. When in doubt, do it like the factory engineers designed it work!

 

[Black63]

I covered this topic in my B-body book complete with pictures. The trick is to use the correct calipers when rear mounted. The best calipers to use are the ones that the factory engineers designed to be rear mounted. The FMJ cars in the mid-80's went to rear mounted calipers so the engineers designed the castings with a bleeder at the top and the hose entry at the bottom. You'll also need custom hoses to do the job correctly.

By the way, if you don't have an anti-sway bar then just do it the easy way and hang the calipers to the front. Front hung calipers will accept factory brake hoses and everything will work better. When in doubt, do it like the factory engineers designed it work!

Ok...I'm a bit lost.
The BEST thing I should do is use FMJ Calipers and then have CUSTOM hoses made. Why?

The issue is in combining the later (78 Charger) spindle/brake assembly with the early lower balljoint/control arm assembly.
The full 78 Charger caliper assembly obviously doesn't work due to the resulting limited clearance for the bottom mounted hose and banjo bolt.

Two cars came out with discs AND the early control arm assembly.
Pre 73 Charger etc and the Challenger etc.
As far as clearance goes the caliper/hose combo from those cars should work perfectly...as they appear to do in a mock up.
Correct?

I assume now that those cars originally had the calipers up front???
By running the calipers to the rear what issues have I created?
It all bolts on...there is no clearance issue with the steering arm.

You seem to suggest what I have WILL work if mounted to the front but won't work if mounted to the rear?

The ONLY potential issue I can see (mounted to the rear) is that I may have to relocate the frame brk for the flex hose mounting.

I'd rather keep the calipers to the rear as I WANT to run a front sway bar.

Calipers with the hose mounted to the bottom is what caused my problem and expense in the first place...now you say I should go back to that style (but from a different model I understand) AND have the added expense of custom hoses ordered in from who knows where?

I'm sorry, no disrespect intended...but I'm just not seeing it!
Could you explain it all out a bit more?

(BTW...I'm NOT suddenly a know-it-all regarding brakes...I'm just in a bit of a spin because I'm thinking there must be something I'm totally missing here!!!)

 

[andyf]

Have you read Eberg's Disc-o-tech article? I'm guessing that maybe you didn't read it originally since it says not to use the late B-body calipers. But maybe you've found the article since then and read it? After you've read his article then you might want to pick up a copy of my B-body book. I tried to provide an update to Eberg's article in my book by showing how to properly rear hang the calipers.

This topic comes up all the time which is why I took the time to take pictures and detail out a solution in the book. There is a set of factory parts which will bolt on and work as rear hung calipers. There is a wider set of parts that works when front hung.

There are also other solutions such as changing the style of anti-sway bar used so that clearance isn't an issue, or rerouting the hard line on the frame so the hose goes to the front rather than the rear for a rear hung caliper. Both of these solutions require extra fab work though.

 

[Black63]

Have you read Eberg's Disc-o-tech article? I'm guessing that maybe you didn't read it originally since it says not to use the late B-body calipers. But maybe you've found the article since then and read it? After you've read his article then you might want to pick up a copy of my B-body book. I tried to provide an update to Eberg's article in my book by showing how to properly rear hang the calipers.

This topic comes up all the time which is why I took the time to take pictures and detail out a solution in the book. There is a set of factory parts which will bolt on and work as rear hung calipers. There is a wider set of parts that works when front hung.

There are also other solutions such as changing the style of anti-sway bar used so that clearance isn't an issue, or rerouting the hard line on the frame so the hose goes to the front rather than the rear for a rear hung caliper. Both of these solutions require extra fab work though.

Read it a couple of months BEFORE I actually ordered any parts and of course completely forgot that the later caliper is clearly ruled out!
My only defence is that I was juggling multiple projects AND doing body repairs on my 63 (resurrection!) at the time and simply blew it memory wise!
Lesson learned....Reread dummy! Hahaha

Sounds like things should work fine with a bit of fabbing at the hose bracket now...thats a non-issue for me considering the amount of fabrication I've done to the old girl already! LoL

Wish I had her back in my home shop so I could get this done right away but thats life!
Made it clear to my supplier that its possible I may have to return stuff at a later date and he's cool with it.
NO special order parts this time around so he can just toss it back on the shelf!

Thanks!

 

[YY1]

I'll say tis one more time in this thread, then I'll move on...

The conversion in the refernced "disk-o-tech" article assumes you can cherry pick the best possible parts from several different pretty hard to find parts cars.

I don't know what's in the junk yards where you guys live, but there are NO 71/72 B bodies within 100 miles of me, and if there are the parts are either already gone, or very expensive.

What we do have plenty of is...5th Avenues.
I see at least two every time I go junkyarding.

Have any of the thread contributors ever tried that conversion?

The spindle, rotor and caliper all BOLT ON. Everything fits, nothing rubs or bumps, and the calipers can be either front or rear hung with no issues (yes I have a factory 1966 sway bar).
The prop valve can even be used.
Hoses from a 73-79 B body work (hose info I got from this forum, thanks).
The LBJ bolts even worked and I was able to return the somewhat expensive and hard to find fine thread bolts and lock nuts I was advised I would need.

Brake pads are readily and economically available for the slider calipers, and even can be had in ceramic material. They are roughly 1/2 the cost of pads for pin type calipers.

If this system can stop a 4000+ pound 5th Ave, it certainly can stop a 3400-3800 lb 60's B body, and is absolutely and unquestionably better than front drums.

As a bonus, this conversion also works with 14" wheels (I've had 14x5 Rallyes and 14x7 Magnum 500s on).

I'll admit, I was skeptical until I read the well written "BigBlockDart.com" article that mathematically debunks the "bump steer" issue.

Please take this info for what it's worth.
It was worth several hundred dollars and lots of wasted parts chasing, fitment, and fabrication time for me.

IMO, this is the best kept secret in the Mopar hobby, and I'm trying my best to get it out

Just don't get me started on using a 66/67 8 3/4 axle housing (with no modification) in a Duster!
That's the second best kept "secret", and I'm assuming all those that argue against it are the ones that have been hoarding all the $500 "A body" 8 3/4 housings

 

[Black63]

I'll say tis one more time in this thread, then I'll move on...

The conversion in the refernced "disk-o-tech" article assumes you can cherry pick the best possible parts from several different pretty hard to find parts cars.

I don't know what's in the junk yards where you guys live, but there are NO 71/72 B bodies within 100 miles of me, and if there are the parts are either already gone, or very expensive.

What we do have plenty of is...5th Avenues.
I see at least two every time I go junkyarding.

Have any of the thread contributors ever tried that conversion?

The spindle, rotor and caliper all BOLT ON. Everything fits, nothing rubs or bumps, and the calipers can be either front or rear hung with no issues (yes I have a factory 1966 sway bar).
The prop valve can even be used.
Hoses from a 73-79 B body work (hose info I got from this forum, thanks).
The LBJ bolts even worked and I was able to return the somewhat expensive and hard to find fine thread bolts and lock nuts I was advised I would need.

Brake pads are readily and economically available for the slider calipers, and even can be had in ceramic material. They are roughly 1/2 the cost of pads for pin type calipers.

If this system can stop a 4000+ pound 5th Ave, it certainly can stop a 3400-3800 lb 60's B body, and is absolutely and unquestionably better than front drums.

As a bonus, this conversion also works with 14" wheels (I've had 14x5 Rallyes and 14x7 Magnum 500s on).

I'll admit, I was skeptical until I read the well written "BigBlockDart.com" article that mathematically debunks the "bump steer" issue.

Please take this info for what it's worth.
It was worth several hundred dollars and lots of wasted parts chasing, fitment, and fabrication time for me.

IMO, this is the best kept secret in the Mopar hobby, and I'm trying my best to get it out

Just don't get me started on using a 66/67 8 3/4 axle housing (with no modification) in a Duster!
That's the second best kept "secret", and I'm assuming all those that argue against it are the ones that have been hoarding all the $500 "A body" 8 3/4 housings

I know what your saying! I can't even find a 5th Avenue! LoL

I looked for a month to finally come across the 77-78 Charger that I pulled my spindle assemblies from...and they were found only by pure luck on a junker abandoned in the woods.

This hobby is becoming harder and harder for the little guy sourcing factory parts!
Even though I have what I THINK will work fine now...I still keep my eyes open for a spare set of brake assemblies...nothing yet!

 

[YY1]

I did get some pics of the factory 72 setup today.
I hope they come out. It was very bright, and they were in the shade and possibly backlit.
As soon as I have a chance to take the card out of my phone I'll post them.
Unlike most, my phone takes a pretty dang good pic. I've gotten complements from folks that own $1000 cameras!!
One thing I did notice was that the calipers are mounted in the FRONT, and the car has a FACTORY sway bar. The mounting is different on the 72, as the LCA tabs are further inboard.

 

[Black63]

I did get some pics of the factory 72 setup today.
I hope they come out. It was very bright, and they were in the shade and possibly backlit.
As soon as I have a chance to take the card out of my phone I'll post them.
Unlike most, my phone takes a pretty dang good pic. I've gotten complements from folks that own $1000 cameras!!
One thing I did notice was that the calipers are mounted in the FRONT, and the car has a FACTORY sway bar. The mounting is different on the 72, as the LCA tabs are further inboard.

Excellent! Thanks man...appreciate it!

 

[YY1]

The ones of the rear didn't turn out.
Was under the car in the shadow, aiming towards the open door into afternoon direct sun.
That's probably the area you wanted to see.

 

[YY1]

Ooops, meant this one of the other side.
Well, anyway, there's one of the bad ones.

 

[Black63]

Those pics are pretty interesting!
Don't really see much issue with swaybar interference by having the calipers up front.
Maybe I WILL just go that route...
Many thanks!

 

[YY1]

The sway bar on my 66 is anchored further out on the LCA.

What sway bar do you have?

 

[Black63]

The sway bar on my 66 is anchored further out on the LCA.

What sway bar do you have?

Don't have one yet at all.
Figured on taking some measurments and hitting the U pick for an off brand donor.
I'm not looking for a huge bar for racing or bragging rights...just something to aid in normal driving.

I adapted one from SOMETHING to a friends 57 Chevy YEARS ago.
He bent a piece of rod to shape and went to the U pick for something close...can't remember what it was now...but he still comments on how much nicer the car is to drive with it.
It was super easy to make up the mounts and the U brackets and bushings that came with the bar we simply reused.

 

[Black63]

Hey! I just noticed!!!
There are some kind of anti-rattle clips on your caliper pins.
I don't have those...didn't know they existed!

Gonna have to hit the parts counter again!!! :head_smack: Hahaha

 

[YY1]

Good Eye. I didn't even notice those.

Perhaps I was distacted by that HUGE spider molt!

 

[YY1]

Some aftermarket (as well as 73/74 factory) sway bars have an outboard mount that clamps to the strut rod instead of bolting to a mounting ear on the LCA.

 

[andyf]

I'll say tis one more time in this thread, then I'll move on...

The conversion in the refernced "disk-o-tech" article assumes you can cherry pick the best possible parts from several different pretty hard to find parts cars.

I don't know what's in the junk yards where you guys live, but there are NO 71/72 B bodies within 100 miles of me, and if there are the parts are either already gone, or very expensive.

What we do have plenty of is...5th Avenues.
I see at least two every time I go junkyarding.

Have any of the thread contributors ever tried that conversion?

The spindle, rotor and caliper all BOLT ON. Everything fits, nothing rubs or bumps, and the calipers can be either front or rear hung with no issues (yes I have a factory 1966 sway bar).
The prop valve can even be used.
Hoses from a 73-79 B body work (hose info I got from this forum, thanks).
The LBJ bolts even worked and I was able to return the somewhat expensive and hard to find fine thread bolts and lock nuts I was advised I would need.

Brake pads are readily and economically available for the slider calipers, and even can be had in ceramic material. They are roughly 1/2 the cost of pads for pin type calipers.

If this system can stop a 4000+ pound 5th Ave, it certainly can stop a 3400-3800 lb 60's B body, and is absolutely and unquestionably better than front drums.

As a bonus, this conversion also works with 14" wheels (I've had 14x5 Rallyes and 14x7 Magnum 500s on).

I'll admit, I was skeptical until I read the well written "BigBlockDart.com" article that mathematically debunks the "bump steer" issue.

Please take this info for what it's worth.
It was worth several hundred dollars and lots of wasted parts chasing, fitment, and fabrication time for me.

IMO, this is the best kept secret in the Mopar hobby, and I'm trying my best to get it out

Just don't get me started on using a 66/67 8 3/4 axle housing (with no modification) in a Duster!
That's the second best kept "secret", and I'm assuming all those that argue against it are the ones that have been hoarding all the $500 "A body" 8 3/4 housings

Yes, the FMJ stuff works just fine. That is what I've used for years. I covered the topic in my B-body book so the information is out there if people will just take the effort to find it and read it.

I should also point out that these days almost everything is available brand new for these swaps. The only thing that doesn't exist is a good quality forged FMJ knuckle. That would be cool to have but I'm not sure if anyone will ever tool it up. The cost is just too high.