Block Crack Repair/Picture

[wyrmrider]

That's what happens when you hit a 235 with nitrus
keep it simple- lock and stitch or one of the other methods
oven welding you are looking at line bore and resurface

 

[68gtxman]

Have you actually done any of it? I’m not gonna even unload one for $400.... let alone repair it for that.

No, I am not in the business. I based the price on the amount of work shown in the video. I would even try to do the weld myself if I had that sort of crack.

If you are in the business, then I defer to your expertise. But, this doesn’t appear to be much effort to fix it

 

[Hemirunner]

Here’s some of our test welds in a flat area like the OP’s block.

 

[Hemirunner]

No, I am not in the business. I based the price on the amount of work shown in the video. I would even try to do the weld myself if I had that sort of crack.

If you are in the business, then I defer to your expertise. But, this doesn’t appear to be much effort to fix it

It’s about time, resources, equipment, knowledge, skill and ability. Cast iron repair isn’t easy and all cast iron isn’t the same even in the same casting. I had one full day in the actual welding on that hemi block just due to wait time in between welds. That didn’t include any prep, the donor block, the time to cut and prep the patch, time researching and testing for the best process to make sure all goes well on the actual matching numbers block. You’re watching a 7 minute video where he welds a casting that isn’t even cracked and forming an opinion on very little info and no actual experience.

 

[68gtxman]

It’s about time, resources, equipment, knowledge, skill and ability. Cast iron repair isn’t easy and all cast iron isn’t the same even in the same casting. I had one full day in the actual welding on that hemi block just due to wait time in between welds. That didn’t include any prep, the donor block, the time to cut and prep the patch, time researching and testing for the best process to make sure all goes well on the actual matching numbers block. You’re watching a 7 minute video where he welds a casting that isn’t even cracked and forming an opinion on very little info and no actual experience.

Well, if I was trying this on a Hemi block, I would be much more cautious (as you were). I would take the cracked block to professional welders to find one comfortable with the process to do it. Then I would pay whatever the price was that they asked if they guaranteed their work.

Plus, from your description, you had much more than a simple couple inch crack going on in your case. Apples and oranges I think.

 

[DLevel]

I am not questioning Hemirunners ability in any way here as I don't have personal experience on his work. More times than not on the stuff I've seen, the attempted weld repair just caused more cracks and made it more difficult to get it sealed. Improper heating and cooling while welding will cause additional cracks and make it almost impossible to drill,tap and pin like in a stitching process. The surface just becomes extremely hard.
I feel your best and most cost effective choice would be to find someone that uses the Lock n Stitch method on a regular basis, then pressure test. The good cast iron welding repair guys are few and far between it seems and they should be compensated well for their work.
Here's some pics that show the amount of work I had to put in to repair an original 409 Chevy car block that someone tried repairing the crack with a weld, then and other weld, then another and so on. Block would crack beside the weld upon cooling, so they would just lay down another weld. Had to cut the entire area out and replace. When the repair is done the pins will all overlap like in the last pic, ground down and peeked around the edges.

 

[threewood]

I just went down a stitch and lock youtube video hole. Very fascinating repair procedure.

 

[wagonman]

This is why I love this site, you guys are awesome.

 

[Hemirunner]

Well, if I was trying this on a Hemi block, I would be much more cautious (as you were). I would take the cracked block to professional welders to find one comfortable with the process to do it. Then I would pay whatever the price was that they asked if they guaranteed their work.

Plus, from your description, you had much more than a simple couple inch crack going on in your case. Apples and oranges I think.

It is definitely an apples and oranges comparison, but the same techniques apply, just less overall time. I think the rod I use would work fine using the TIG process on the block the OP posted, however the lock and stitch method works great as well on those types of cracks. That’s still a very time consuming process as we’ve used it quite frequently in the past.

 

[Hemirunner]

I am not questioning Hemirunners ability in any way here as I don't have personal experience on his work. More times than not on the stuff I've seen, the attempted weld repair just caused more cracks and made it more difficult to get it sealed. Improper heating and cooling while welding will cause additional cracks and make it almost impossible to drill,tap and pin like in a stitching process. The surface just becomes extremely hard.
I feel your best and most cost effective choice would be to find someone that uses the Lock n Stitch method on a regular basis, then pressure test. The good cast iron welding repair guys are few and far between it seems and they should be compensated well for their work.
Here's some pics that show the amount of work I had to put in to repair an original 409 Chevy car block that someone tried repairing the crack with a weld, then and other weld, then another and so on. Block would crack beside the weld upon cooling, so they would just lay down another weld. Had to cut the entire area out and replace. When the repair is done the pins will all overlap like in the last pic, ground down and peeked around the edges. ]

Excellent work. You’ve got quite a bit of time invested in that as well, it’s not a quick process.

 

[dvw]

Water crack Lock and Stich every time. Side of a block with no water jacket, weld it. Easy enough to stick the pieces together and make it look good. The problem occurs later if the part cooled to quickly. Many times it will crack right next to the weld.
Doug

 

[steve from staten island]

Simple weld without going through the oven process, if the welder knows what he’s doing. Should be much less that $400.

Not a way id weld cast. Every start and stop is a potential leak or weak spot. Notice his lack of penetration the first bead he lays down. Stick welding cast iron leaves a lot of flux, slag inclusion is a problem, the wire itself is a PIA to run, you have to make sure you catch both sides of what your welding. Porosity on start up is always a issue with cast iron welding wire. The only proper way to weld cast is post and pre heat and letting the part cool slowly, not letting it sit and cool down in the air.
The other thing is the opinion he gave on welding steel, he is wrong. Steel can be welded outside in colder temps but it all depends on how cold, rate of cooling, and whats being welded. When it gets to single digits welding something for high strength becomes a issue, again its rapid heating and cooling of whats being welded. When we welded high pressure piping at times it was cold, it was absolutely necessary to pre heat and post heat and let the joint cool slowly by wrapping the joint up with high temp wrap. When a old friend was welding on the twin towers in the dead of winter, he told me they would construct a shelter around a joint being welded and heat that joint up with a large rose bud to whatever the specs called for, then weld it.
You have to watch these you tube video's, there is a lot of misinformation out there

 

[FlagCraig]

Big thanks for all this input. You all definitely have made some great suggestions and advice I could not have gotten anywhere else. When the block gets back from machining my engine builder and I will decide what to do. I will also send pictures after the repair.

Okay I have another question (maybe two).

What if I would not have pulled the block to do a rebuild? Would this type of crack continued to get worse?

I have only street driven the car and would have continued to do so. I really had no reason to pull this motor other than it has never been rebuilt. 50+ years old.

 

[wyrmrider]

well it's not going to gt better
If you could have drilled both ends you MIGHT have stopped it but how to do that in the car?
lock and stitch is the same thing with pins in the holes
yo can DIY
there is also figure 8 shaped "metalstitch" and several other variants- but $ U keep it simple

 

[Hemirunner]

Here’s the finished hemi block afterwards.

 

[chooch]

Big thanks for all this input. You all definitely have made some great suggestions and advice I could not have gotten anywhere else. When the block gets back from machining my engine builder and I will decide what to do. I will also send pictures after the repair.

Okay I have another question (maybe two).

What if I would not have pulled the block to do a rebuild? Would this type of crack continued to get worse?

I have only street driven the car and would have continued to do so. I really had no reason to pull this motor other than it has never been rebuilt. 50+ years old.

don't waste your time machining It if your going to weld it

 

[Hemirunner]

don't waste your time machining It if your going to weld it

With the tig braze type process we used, we didn’t even have to line hone after putting a chunk of sidewall and panrail back in. I was shocked that nothing moved. The rod claims to have 300% elongation which if true, is pretty crazy. A sidewall crack like that wouldn’t move anything using a process like this.

 

[FlagCraig]

I use lock-n-stitch all the time, and works very well. I would see ANY problems with fixing that crack this way. Here are some pics of a 16" crack I repaired on a 235 GM 6cyl. Owner wanted original block, so... Took about 7 hrs and 135 pins.

View attachment 585223 View attachment 585224 View attachment 585225 View attachment 585227 View attachment 585228 View attachment 585229 View attachment 585230 View attachment 585231

Where do you buy lock-n-stich? I was on their website. Do they have distributors? As mentioned my crack is about 2"....what can I expect to pay?
Thanks for the help.

 

[69Bee]

It is only available from them as far as I know. You can expect to pay $250-$300 for a starter kit from them.

 

[not so famous bob]

that's nothing to worry about I've had a lot worse than that repaired I'd just cold stitch which is usually $50 a inch make sure they over lap them & pressure test it. I would never weld a block unless it absolutely had to be.

I stitch locked a hemi block that was way worse then any posted. Overlapped 1/2 all the way , w/ permanent Loctite on al threads. I used reg. 1/4 x 20 stage 3 soft bolts, the length was about 1/2" if I remember right. Peened the hell out of them w/ a ball peen . I ran 10.40-10.70 (depending on the bite) for 14 yrs w/ no problems. It was sold and is being fully restored now.
Still holding perfect when sold. The cracks were so bad, I had it line honed . Doubt if the currant owner even knows it.