Blown tranny now. Honestly, what next?

[Wietse]

It sounds to me like your converter came apart since all gears are gone. Usually 3rd gear goes if the kickdown linkage isn't adjusted correctly in my experience.

I am thinking the same, but should you not still get the "clunk" when going in reverse?
Sounds more like the pump is a wrecked, probably started to go bad until it did not provide sufficient oil pressure anymore to apply the clutches and bands.
During its last miles burnt the clutches and bands due to low pressure.

 

[Nxcoupe]

I am thinking the same, but should you not still get the "clunk" when going in reverse?
Sounds more like the pump is a wrecked, probably started to go bad until it did not provide sufficient oil pressure anymore to apply the clutches and bands.
During its last miles burnt the clutches and bands due to low pressure.

Honestly it could have gone either way, converter went and took out the pump or pump went and destroyed the rest. Either way, it doesn't bode well.

 

[Mark1972]

Hey guys. Thanks for the all responses and suggestions. Essentially, for right or wrong, here's what I did, and here's where I am now. I pulled the tranny and took it to a shop that was mentioned a couple times earlier in this thread. I also have experience with this shop, and it's always been positive. The torque converter failed. The tranny was completely disassembled and inspected. The good news was other than the torque converter, none of the major parts were damaged. The entire unit was cleaned, anything that needed to be replaced was replaced, a few more upgrades were done, and a new 2200 stall was ordered to replace the blown unit. During inspection it was found that whoever worked on the valve body had no idea what they were doing. Essentially the shift kit was installed incorrectly. Anyway, with everything fixed and my new TC arriving Friday, and installed the tranny on Sunday. Now the owner of the tranny shop told me as soon as the tranny is in, bring the car to him and leave it with him so he can check it all out and set it up properly. So I got it all together, added the ATF, and connected the battery. Fired up the car, and let it come up to temp(180F), put it in neutral, and checked the tranny oil. It was low, so I added more. This is when things went south. While adding the oil, for about 1 second, it sounded like someone shaking a can of pennies. Then it was fine again, and about 3 seconds later, the same awful sound which didn't stop. I run around the car to shut it off, and the car won't shut off. With the key off it keeps running rough. I had to disconnect the battery to get it to stop trying to run. I go under the car and remove the tin lower bell housing cover to try and see something that would cause the awful noise, but my bolts are all still in place, and still torque marked. No sign of rubbing. I decide to connect the battery and start the vehicle again, and as soon as I connect the battery, the engine tries to turn over, in park with the ignition key in my pocket! What in the all serious hell is going on now? I'm thinking I don't need a mechanic, I need a priest. This car is possessed.

 

[Wietse]

For the starting issue, check your starter relay and wiring.
Maybe connected wrong or shorting somewhere, next check all cables going to the starter motor for any grounding.
Starter coil itself also might be at fault here, but go from relay, to wiring and finally to starter motor, there must be something shorting. It should never actually start since the ignition is not getting any juice.

Likely the nasty noise is the starter motor pinion still engaged with the flywheel and continue to crank the engine.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

If you decide to rebuild your 727 yourself, here’s a good book from Tom Hand.

 

[Dan64]

As mentioned, most likely the starter. Pull off the inspection cover and look at the teeth on the convertor, turn the engine over BY HAND to check all the teeth. Hopefully the teeth are all still good. This is the kind of stuff that makes guys get away from the old rides and buy new but think about how cool the car will be when you get it dialed in. Also if that convertor was slipping the whole time ( sounds like it may have been) think about how much quicker the car will be, Good luck with it.

 

[70 GTX-R]

only 2 wires to starter, so wondering if cable end on trigger wire twisted when tightening and contacted the power wire. or you have power on trigger for some reason now. With the starter the only thing touched. seems most likely area.

 

[Mark1972]

Ok, so it appears obvious the starter gear engaged the flywheel while the motor was already running, and while it did take a little paint off, all the teeth are ok. My neighbor came over and we checked the starter relay(he's way better at this stuff than I am)and while the relay tested out ok, he said these things can go anytime. Btw, it's never been changed since I've owned the car. 9 years. Also, below is a picture of the positive starter wire, and the bare wire was laying against the body of the starter. Now my neighbor mentioned to me that unless you are powering the relay, the starter should never get power, because the relay contact should still be open, unless it's faulty. So I'm repairing the damaged starter wire, and will replace the relay. I hope this takes care of the problem.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Your starter maybe toast. Started my Satellite once and key stuck in start position. As it started it with small tap on accelerator pedal as I released the key a frump from the starter. The commutater exploded and ripped up brush
assembly.

 

[Nxcoupe]

Ok, so it appears obvious the starter gear engaged the flywheel while the motor was already running, and while it did take a little paint off, all the teeth are ok. My neighbor came over and we checked the starter relay(he's way better at this stuff than I am)and while the relay tested out ok, he said these things can go anytime. Btw, it's never been changed since I've owned the car. 9 years. Also, below is a picture of the positive starter wire, and the bare wire was laying against the body of the starter. Now my neighbor mentioned to me that unless you are powering the relay, the starter should never get power, because the relay contact should still be open, unless it's faulty. So I'm repairing the damaged starter wire, and will replace the relay. I hope this takes care of the problem.

View attachment 1338159

The starter can fail internally and also cause it to crank on its own.

 

[Mark1972]

The starter can fail internally and also cause it to crank on its own.

That appears to be the case. I've completely disconnected the wires and when connecting the battery cable, the engine turns over.

 

[Mark1972]

Well, you gotta love headers. I run a '91 Dakota mini starter, and even that stands no chance of coming out. Gotta pull the trans back about 8 inches. Either way, the starter is out, and tomorrow I'll grab a new starter and a new starter relay just for the hell of it. I'll post again to this thread in a week or two(depending on work)once the tranny has been set up by the shop and the car is on the road again. Thanks again guys for all the help.

 

[HawkRod]

For my 70 Road Runner (with headers too), I find that the header and starter need to come out together. But if you loosen the header, you may be able to slide out the starter without taking the header all the way out.

I'm not sure that's easier than sliding the tranny back, but I just figured I'd throw it out there so you can evaluate options...

Good luck!

 

[Mark1972]

With my power steering, and big 2" Doug's Headers, there is absolutely no room to loosen the header and move it. When I put the engine in, I set the headers in first, and lowered the motor in to them. In hindsight, I should have looked harder for some HP manifolds, and used them.

 

[Wietse]

You could try and lift the engine up as far as it goes. (tranny will hit the tunnel first, be carefull with radiator and cooling fan if mechanical fan is in use)
Then it is still guessing it will come out or not, moving the transmission back is guaranteed to work.
Probably easier to pull the transmission back if you have a lift and transmission jack/trolley.

 

[Kern Dog]

With my power steering, and big 2" Doug's Headers, there is absolutely no room to loosen the header and move it. When I put the engine in, I set the headers in first, and lowered the motor in to them. In hindsight, I should have looked harder for some HP manifolds, and used them.

I have TTI 2" headers shaped almost the same, power steering and a mini starter and was able to unbolt the header and wobble it around enough to get the starter out. Unbolting the left motor mount and lifting the engine a bit can help as well. Unbolting the transmission to change a starter???

 

[Mark1972]

I have TTI 2" headers shaped almost the same, power steering and a mini starter and was able to unbolt the header and wobble it around enough to get the starter out. Unbolting the left motor mount and lifting the engine a bit can help as well. Unbolting the transmission to change a starter???

I know it seems crazy, but it is what it is. To be fair, I didn't try loosening the header. With aluminum heads I'm not a big fan of loosening and tightening those header bolts too often. The engine is shimmed over to the passenger side 1/8" just to make room for the power steering. It was only frustrating yesterday because if just spent Sunday installing the tranny(no tranny jack), and now it had to come back out. But since everything was clean and very recently installed, lol, I had the tranny down and back 6" in about 90 minutes. So it's not as bad of a job as it sounds. One of these days I will certainly switch to HP manifolds. For my cars use, headers aren't really required. It was just the best option at the time.

 

[Wietse]

Not sure what brand headers you got there, but for me the most annoying thing in my TTI headers is that the bell housing does not fit between them.
I need to pull the trans, rotate it almost 90deg and then it can fit between the headers down.
Not sure this is the case with all headers, below a picture of mine.

 

[Dan64]

I just rebuilt my 727 in my 64' about 2 weeks ago and i left the starter laying on the 2" TTI headers while the trans was out. I remember thinking that there was no way in the world to replace the starter in this 64' without either removing the trans or lifting the motor/ undoing headers and worrying about paint getting messed up. I'm sure i would have gone about it as you did, seems like the best way. Funny part is that i since i have a RMS rack and pinion the headers don't need to be anywhere near that close to the starter sinced the steering box is no longer there.

 

[Dan64]

Not sure what brand headers you got there, but for me the most annoying thing in my TTI headers is that the bell housing does not fit between them.
I need to pull the trans, rotate it almost 90deg and then it can fit between the headers down.
Not sure this is the case with all headers, below a picture of mine.

View attachment 1338623

I noticed the same thing with mine, I backed the header bolts all the way loose on the passengers side and zip tied the collector toward the rocker , it give me just enough room to side the trans back. I didn't want to have to mess with header gaskets on the driver's side. Actually, I got lucky in that when i installed the header gaskets I put some Permatex copper on the engine side and when i loosened the passengers side header it came off clean from the block. once the trans was back in i thought, mind as well just try to bolt it back up and only replace the gasket if it leaked, got lucky, all good.