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Body Work Advice

Endangered Species

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I'm working on a 65 Belvedere sedan. I have all but the dash and the front and rear suspension out of and off the car.

I'm in need of some advise.... where to start.

The car needs rear wheel opening patches, along with the lower quarter patches, it needs floors, and about 8" of rear rocker repair, just before the wheel opening. Along with some other body work (lower rear window frame, and a small hole in the inner cowl).

Should I start with the floor, or should I start with the quarters & Rockers?

I just don't want to put the car before the horse.

I'll try to get some pictures of it posted on here if I can figure it out.

Thanks

Kevin
 
start with the four corners(tourque boxes)rockers and floor the most integral part or the car and go from the ground up,do all your gaps to your sheetmetal and doors the same way,ground up.
 
Hard to say without seeing some pic's of the cancer you got and the amount of work you will have in the intergral areas of your car.

Couple tips......

Come up with a plan were your work will flow from one area into another instead of jumping around from one spot to another..Makes it easier to remember the OEM setup as well as making it easier to understand how everything ties into itself

If you need to hone your sheetmetal skills, start with obscure areas like your floor so you may tweak your welding/metal skills before hitting up the more cosmetic areas of your car.

Good luck Kevin!

Prop
 
Thanks for the advise! you've been a big help.

I'm going to start with the floors and move on from there.

What would you recommend.. I'm going with AMD metal, (although I don't like the fact that it's made in Taiwan) Do you recommend a one piece floor or buying it in sections?

Also, before I cut what's left of the floor should I put braces in?

If I get a chance today I'll try to figure out how to post pictures.

Thanks again!

Kevin
 
I'm the same Kevin......I also do not like the fact it's made in Taiwan. Honest truth about their parts though is that a majority of them fit very well. I've been using AMD on my Roadrunner rebuild and for the most part only had to "tweak" them just a bit to make them fit very nicely. A lot better than most of the goodmark and sherman parts i've used in the past.

As far as sectioning or a one piece, the one piece is actually going to be a lot less welding than the 2 piece. You won't have to worry about lining up cut lines to fresh metal or welding up the fit up by your tunnel. The full two piece pans from AMD will need all the same spot welds to remove (inner rocker/floor, front seam, rear seam, rails, seat reinforcement/floor brace's, and tortion bar crossmember), as well as cutting along your tunnel.

The plus side to the two piece- you can replace in isolated areas (if you want to cut/modify your new pans) instead of removing all the factory spot welds.

There has been a few threads on here, with some debate about weather or not bracing for a one piece is required. Some folks of here have done without and had no issues. On the flip side Mopar Muscle did a skit on a one piece and said you should, as well as some old service manuals recommend it to avoid the car from parellelograming. An AMD mopar build showed them linking 1.5" tubing from the front of the rear frame rails to the torsion bar crossmember where the juction of the front rails meet up in an "X" fashion.

A two piece you will not have to worry about bracing if you are doing one side at a time. Myself I wouldn't worry about bracing for a one piece too much, but probably would fabricate a little something just to give me more of a warm fuzzy feeling seeing your pan is an crucial part of your unibodies stuctual integrity
 
Propwash, Thanks for the helpful insight. How do I post pictures on here so I can show you what I'm working with?

I have the pictures down loaded on my computer but can't figure out how to post them.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Couple different ways you can go Kevin........

First is at the bottom of the thread where you have the quick reply section with text box that you type in, hit the "Go Advanced" button under that text box.

Once your in the advanced section, scroll down just a bit and hit the "manage attachments" tab. That will open up a small box where you can upload files from your computer. Hit one of the "browse" tabs and navigate through till you find the file you want to load...then hit the upload button. All you have to do when they are done being uploaded is hit the submit reply tab on the main advanced section screen.


Another way is under the quick reply section, you'll notice at the top of the text box the little icon that looks like a little postcard with a mountain and postage stamp on it. That's your "insert image" icon. If you post pictures to places like photobucket or similar others, simply copy the direct link for your picture and paste it in the insert image tab when you select it. If you have images loaded to your own photo album here on FBBO, you can copy/paste the direct link from there as well. A direct link (URL LINK) for one of you pic's will look something like this:

]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy152/propwash4/1968%20Dodge%20Coronet%20500%20conv/cnt6.jpg[

Let me know if your having issues or also you can visit this link here:

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_vb3_reading_posting

Good luck
 
Ok, let's try this. Here are the pictures of my floor. Where the seat would go looks good except the one bad spot on the right. I'm just going to replace it all.
Who ever had this car before replaced the floors once already with plain sheet metal but never replaced the window gaskets and let the car set outside and rot all over again.

I'll post pictures of the rockers next.


What do you think?

Thanks

Floor Back 09 10.jpg


Floor Front.jpg
 
Ahhhh...What a shame to leave her rot all over again.

Judging by all rot, and knowing you'll be cutting into previous repairs if you went the 2 piece route, I would definitly go with the one piece Kevin
 
Ok, here are some more. There are more areas that need some repair but what's in the pictures is probably the worst, as far as I can see.

1st pic - Rt. Rear Quarter Panel, the Lft rear is about the same maybe a little better.

2nd pic - Drivers side rocker.

3rd Pic - Pass. side rocker, that's the worst of of the rockers.

4th Pic - Pass side torsion bar cross member. Damn Mouse nest... the rest of the cross member is mint, just the one spot. When I was digging out the rot insulation fell out.

Thanks again for your help!

Pass Rear Quarter 09 10.jpg


Drivers Side Rocker Panel.jpg


Pass Side Rocker Panel.jpg


Pass Side Torsion Bar Cross Member 09 10.jpg
 
Ahhhh...What a shame to leave her rot all over again.

Judging by all rot, and knowing you'll be cutting into previous repairs if you went the 2 piece route, I would definitly go with the one piece Kevin



Ok, That's what I was thinking. I want to cut out everything that the other guy did. This way I know it's all new.

Thanks

Kev
 
looks like you got your work cut out for you Kev...and good idea on riping out the old work. Rustbelt queen?

How is you rear rails?
 
Yha, that's about the worst of it. .. if that isn't enough... Everywhere else seems pretty solid. It has the normal, lower rear window corner rot, and a small hole on the inner cowl which is easy to fix. About 2" of rot right at the seam on the fire wall, that shouldn't be an issue to fix. and the front fenders will need some repair.

The frame rails from what I can see are solid. As far as the torsion bar cross member I have a lead on a cut out, so I'll just replace it. The door skin needs a little patch work on the bottom also, but other than that they're solid and shut really nice, which is a good sign.

I know there is a lot of work there but I would really like to save it. It's not like I have a lot of money in the car.

I appreciate any advise you're willing to offer.

Thanks

Kev
 
Can you tell what kind of shape your inner rockers are in by looking from underneath the car? The reason I ask is they, along with your outer rockers, play a crucial part in the stuctual integrity of you car. Your car definitly needs to be braced for a one piece floor pan replacement judging by the amount of loss of structure you have. Plus you'll need it anyways if the torsion bar crossmember is coming out. If your inner rockers need to be replaced they will have to be done before installing a new pan seeing the pan spot welds in at the top lip of the inner rockers...

Hopefully you'll be able to patch them up. I know your model of car, parts are a bit harder to come by compared to a 68-72 model mopar.

First off...You need to decide if you are going to have the car media blasted or not.. You cut off the rot or panels you will be replacing and know will be hitting the garbage can before the blaster, you will need to further brace the care exponentially to the metal you remove. DeMatt and Donny have great threads showing brace work. Donny will answer any media blasting questions you have

If you decide to go the more conventional route and attack it with wire wheels/spot blasters/chemical means, you want to get the car off the ground via large jack stand at the frame... or rolling jig. If you go the rotisserie route, again, you need to brace that car, even jam to jam if you can.

This is my opinion or route I would go on your car.........(just my preference and what has worked(s) for me)
Decide how cost/time saving media blasting would be for your project...My current project i'm not blasting seeing the limited availability of a professional media blaster as well as so much metal is being replaced, why bother..isn't cost effective. I'm not scared of a grinder/sander/die grinder and rust bullet.
In a lot of senario's it makes much more sense to have a car blasted.

When all is said and done...get the car on stands/rotisserie/jig and come up with a battle plan. Detmatt built a jig that supports the car as well as creates a template for installing new metal in the proper position.. Myself, I put the car up on 6 ton jackstands and marked out all positions with a plum bob, sharpie, and drawings.

I always like to work from the rear of the car moving forward. Generally that's how the severity of corrosion flows as well. Start with rear support(rails,crossmember,trunk pan, fill panel), and move forward (inner/outer wheelhouses).Your rockers on your car will obviously need to be addressed before quarters seeing they tuck in under the quarters south of the jams. Also, like i said earlier, you're gonna need to know the shape of your inner rockers before putting in that floor pan.

I don't know how in depth you would want me to go on this, but obviously a guy could write a novel pretty quick...Check out all thee great threads for resto on here, FABO, FEBO and others, along with the world wide web before you get started. Take a good look at your skills, confidence, pocket book, equipment, and facilities and put together your own game plan that is going to accomodate you, your family and the bank account. Take your time haste makes waste!

Please don't hesitate if you have any questions. There is a lot of great guys on here always willing to help another mopar nut out!

Good luck
 
Lots of good advice from Propwash...As advised, you need to know what you can afford with a project like this, money,skills and time, coupled with the right tools and facility to do it. As far as where to start, I live by the bodymans credo of tackling the worst first. The foundation of the car is the most important, Floor and torque box areas first and then work your way out. Just like building a house.

We are here to help you through it just as Propwash said!
 
You guys have been offering some great advise.

I can do this.

As far as equipment, I have a tig welder, hammer & dolly's, saws and hand grinders, wire wheels etc etc. I need to get a mig (I hate lying on my head trying to hold the tig torch and rod) I also need a brake.

Facility - I have a decent heated garage... although I'm going to need to do some moving around to get the snowmobiles in to get them ready for this winter. I don't have room for a rotissorie but that's ok

As far as money goes, I don't have a big budget but I think I can make it work.

Anything you think I should get that's a must?

Thanks

Kev
 
Can you tell what kind of shape your inner rockers are in by looking from underneath the car? The reason I ask is they, along with your outer rockers, play a crucial part in the stuctual integrity of you car. Your car definitly needs to be braced for a one piece floor pan replacement judging by the amount of loss of structure you have. Plus you'll need it anyways if the torsion bar crossmember is coming out. If your inner rockers need to be replaced they will have to be done before installing a new pan seeing the pan spot welds in at the top lip of the inner rockers...
Hopefully you'll be able to patch them up. I know your model of car, parts are a bit harder to come by compared to a 68-72 model mopar.


Ok, My inner rockers seem to be pretty good. a little rust but I hit them with the pick end of my body hammer and they seem pretty solid from what I can tell. The only bad part of the inner's is where the rocker meets the wheel house. Your right... the further forward you go on the rockers the better they got.
I'll see if I can find some rockers, if not I think I can patch them. Hey.. .that part is only going to take time and some steel, welding wire and argon.





First off...You need to decide if you are going to have the car media blasted or not.. You cut off the rot or panels you will be replacing and know will be hitting the garbage can before the blaster, you will need to further brace the care exponentially to the metal you remove. DeMatt and Donny have great threads showing brace work. Donny will answer any media blasting questions you have

If you decide to go the more conventional route and attack it with wire wheels/spot blasters/chemical means, you want to get the car off the ground via large jack stand at the frame... or rolling jig. If you go the rotisserie route, again, you need to brace that car, even jam to jam if you can.





I don't know how much is going to be left to blast. I'm going to try to do as much as I can with the wire wheel and spot blaster. If I can't get the rest then I might take it to a blaster.





This is my opinion or route I would go on your car.........(just my preference and what has worked(s) for me)
Decide how cost/time saving media blasting would be for your project...My current project i'm not blasting seeing the limited availability of a professional media blaster as well as so much metal is being replaced, why bother..isn't cost effective. I'm not scared of a grinder/sander/die grinder and rust bullet.
In a lot of senario's it makes much more sense to have a car blasted.

When all is said and done...get the car on stands/rotisserie/jig and come up with a battle plan. Detmatt built a jig that supports the car as well as creates a template for installing new metal in the proper position.. Myself, I put the car up on 6 ton jackstands and marked out all positions with a plum bob, sharpie, and drawings.

I always like to work from the rear of the car moving forward. Generally that's how the severity of corrosion flows as well. Start with rear support(rails,crossmember,trunk pan, fill panel), and move forward (inner/outer wheelhouses).Your rockers on your car will obviously need to be addressed before quarters seeing they tuck in under the quarters south of the jams. Also, like i said earlier, you're gonna need to know the shape of your inner rockers before putting in that floor pan.





The rear of the car and the truck is fairly good. The trunk has two holes the size of a golf ball, but all and all the trunk is solid. It's good enough that I wasn't going to replace it, just fix the holes and be done with it.
I'll start there along with finish striping the back tail piece of the car to make sure there isn't any suprises. Then move on to the rockers. That will give me time to come up with a game plan before I start cutting.





I don't know how in depth you would want me to go on this, but obviously a guy could write a novel pretty quick...Check out all thee great threads for resto on here, FABO, FEBO and others, along with the world wide web before you get started. Take a good look at your skills, confidence, pocket book, equipment, and facilities and put together your own game plan that is going to accomodate you, your family and the bank account. Take your time haste makes waste!

Please don't hesitate if you have any questions. There is a lot of great guys on here always willing to help another mopar nut out!

Good luck




Propwash,

If you don't mind PM me your email address.

Thanks again for your help

Kev
 
The foundation of the car is the most important, Floor and torque box areas first and then work your way out. Just like building a house.

66_B_Body4ever brings up a very good point. If a car has damage/corrsion detrimental to the core foundation of the car....That will be need to be addressed first due to the fact that when you start tossing fresh metal over the top of a subpar/crooked core, fit up and trying to align panels is going to be a real pain in the rear, it will never be right and honestly would be a waste of your time and money.

As far as your equipment/facilities, sounds like you're well on your way..
Looking like you have the basic's down. As time goes by, you'll obviously figure out the "little things" needed to suit your job.

One thing I would definitly recommend is a decent compressor with air tools..A die grinder, air saw, air hammer, air shears, high speed sander will be your new best friend. I guess it's debatable if you need air to take on a large project, but believe me, it will save you a ton of time/money/headaches.
Some smaller things like...Small blast cabinet, parts washer, plenty of proper lighting and like you said, a MIG welder, will save you a lot of time. Oh yeah, a wife that will put up with your countless hours in the garage as well....:laughing7:

Another "tool" I guess you could say, would be as much documentation and photographs for refference as you go along. Even a journal, or heck...a thread on here, will be one of your most priceless tools. Also, stay organized! Bag, label, mark all your parts....Create a want/need/repair list via computer, paper or whatever suits your fancy....These two crucial tools will be the ones to save you the most time/money/headaches, and are often overlooked. It's honeslty where i've seen a lot of other guys projects meet their demise because this key element was missing.

I sent you the PM.....email me anytime.. What kind of Sled's you running? Pretty avid snowmobiler myself.

Take care,
Will
 
I have a 65 Satellite and bought the AMD one piece.

The only issue I had with the AMD product was that the B Body one piece measures roughly 59 1/2 inches across. My inner rocker sill from side to side is 61 inches. It is a very tight fit to get the edges to sit on the inner rocker ledges. It fits but barely. I wish that it was a little wider just so it sits more securely.

You may want to meaure your inner rocker from side to side.

Just my two cents worth.
 
I have a 65 Satellite and bought the AMD one piece.

The only issue I had with the AMD product was that the B Body one piece measures roughly 59 1/2 inches across. My inner rocker sill from side to side is 61 inches. It is a very tight fit to get the edges to sit on the inner rocker ledges. It fits but barely. I wish that it was a little wider just so it sits more securely.

You may want to meaure your inner rocker from side to side.

Just my two cents worth.



Thanks for the heads up! I'll check it out.
I need to get the old floor out before I can measure. I'm going to need to brace it first so I can fix the rockers.
Then start on the floor.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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