Can a Clutch Car be Competitive in Bracket?

[padam]

Maybe a cigar would help.

 

[Johnpat]

Depends on your reflex's,are they as good as they were 20yrs ago?

 

[biomedtechguy]

I'll probably grudge race more during Test and Tune than bracket race.
There's just no way I want to give up rowing the gears!
SAVE THE STICK!!

 

[Johnpat]

I'll probably grudge race more during Test and Tune than bracket race.
There's just no way I want to give up rowing the gears!
SAVE THE STICK!!
View attachment 1009066

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Can you cut <.030 lights and run on your dial consistently. That’s the answer.

 

[Johnpat]

That was supposed to say Power Shift,
Makes me a little nervous being over 70,
still do it though

 

[Dibbons]

Of course one is nervous, I used to feel it in my knees. Always on the edge of blowing something up and wondering about it (even with the safety net of a rev limiter set at a "safe" speed).

 

[padam]

That was supposed to say Power Shift,
Makes me a little nervous being over 70,
still do it though

I'm not sure how good I can be if I get enough practice. I think I can get close to that.
I think maybe next year just run street class again, and see if I can get any better.
I think I would rather run where I have a chance to win once in a while, rather than go out in the 1st round every week.

 

[dvw]

Our GLLSA series winner this year was Ben Wenzel in a 67 Z28 F/S 4 speed. Our series also includes Brad Zakowski. He was #2 in the nation NHRA S/S in 2019 using a 4 speed. Local guy I race with runs a 10.0 , 66 Nova 4 speed. Does very well. As far as .00x lights. Maybe in big dollar stuff. But from what I've seen locally they are hit or miss. A clutch pedal stop really helped me at the tree when I raced a 4 speed. Less travel, quicker reaction. Is it easy, nope. But there are plenty of poor reaction times run by racers using trans brakes. I've won more than my share against them using foot brake without a starting line chip.
Doug

 

[cosgig]

Maybe a cigar would help.

I think it’s standard equipment!

 

[Frustration]

Just curious how fast the Charger is. The faster it is, the tougher it will be to run consistently. It appears to have small tires, and from my experience, that generation of Chargers has very little overhang in the rear, and lots in the front. Getting her to hook at 3800-4000lbs will not be easy. That being said, there's a local (Cecil Co, MD) racer, that races a 10.0 71 road runner multiple times per weekend. He was number one qualifier at a Maple Grove Index race a few weeks ago. Went 10.003 on a 10.0 index. I'm pretty sure he was still in when the race was called and the money was split. He runs an aftermarket trans (Liberty I think, but not positive). His car has also been extensively lightened to 2900#. He used to run a face-plated 833, but switched. As for running an index class...those guys are really tough. Most will run dead on their dial, and cut great r/t's. Around here the index racers will enter multiple classes at the same event. 10.0 and Pro Dial for example. They use Pro Dial to tune their car to run the index. On the East, index classes are all run on a .500 Pro Tree, except 8.50 that runs a .400 Pro Tree. That Pro Tree is a tough one with a 4-speed. Especially if you need to "deep stage". Good luck!

 

[padam]

Just curious how fast the Charger is. The faster it is, the tougher it will be to run consistently. It appears to have small tires, and from my experience, that generation of Chargers has very little overhang in the rear, and lots in the front. Getting her to hook at 3800-4000lbs will not be easy. That being said, there's a local (Cecil Co, MD) racer, that races a 10.0 71 road runner multiple times per weekend. He was number one qualifier at a Maple Grove Index race a few weeks ago. Went 10.003 on a 10.0 index. I'm pretty sure he was still in when the race was called and the money was split. He runs an aftermarket trans (Liberty I think, but not positive). His car has also been extensively lightened to 2900#. He used to run a face-plated 833, but switched. As for running an index class...those guys are really tough. Most will run dead on their dial, and cut great r/t's. Around here the index racers will enter multiple classes at the same event. 10.0 and Pro Dial for example. They use Pro Dial to tune their car to run the index. On the East, index classes are all run on a .500 Pro Tree, except 8.50 that runs a .400 Pro Tree. That Pro Tree is a tough one with a 4-speed. Especially if you need to "deep stage". Good luck!

The car is pretty slow now, 8.80 in the 1/8th which I am guessing is around high 13's in the 1/4. It used to run 8.10 / 12.50, but the engine is tired.

Weight is about 3500 now, but chassis is stock other than SS Springs.

It will hook with the tires on it now if I heat them up and launch at 3500.

I was able to get some consistency, so I think if I cleaned up my act in a few places there is some potential.

I am really trying to decide how far I should go with things.

If I switched over to an automatic, I really don't see why I could be better than all of the racers already experienced at that.

I talked to a guy last week that was running 6.40 with a 73 Charger, back halfed, 512, auto.

That's the kind of speed I'd really like.

 

[padam]

I'm also curious if a .500 pro tree is an equalizer, or another advantage for automatics.

 

[33 IMP]

In my opinion, a full tree is an equalizer. With experience you can find a place to leave that works for you. If you can't go red on a .500 pro tree, if the car won't react quick enough, you're toast. If you can go red, then you can adjust suspension settings, tire height, tire pressures, starting line rpm, etc. to get a good light.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

I'm also curious if a .500 pro tree is an equalizer, or another advantage for automatics.

...another is they don’t miss a shift with an auto.

15 years ago I went out in the second round in my small block 4sp car. Missed 3rd under a power shift...with no rev limiter. I knew I was screwed when it came up with a miss...pulling plug wires at idle in the pits revealed the cylinder. Fortunately it “only” cost me a couple of valves and a valve job.

Much later I found my input shaft was not perfectly aligned with my Lakewood scatter shield. After we dialed in the scattershield to the crankshaft centerline, it shifted much better under power.

I applaud your effort with the 4sp. There is no doubt they are funner!

 

[padam]

...another is they don’t miss a shift with an auto.

15 years ago I went out in the second round in my small block 4sp car. Missed 3rd under a power shift...with no rev limiter. I knew I was screwed when it came up with a miss...pulling plug wires at idle in the pits revealed the cylinder. Fortunately it “only” cost me a couple of valves and a valve job.

Much later I found my input shaft was not perfectly aligned with my Lakewood scatter shield. After we dialed in the scattershield to the crankshaft centerline, it shifted much better under power.

I applaud your effort with the 4sp. There is no doubt they are funner!

I don't miss too many shifts (knock wood), but I also lift the gas a little since I am not running a rev limiter . That will be addressed this winter, along with many other things.

That's one of the things I love about racing and racers, how squared away their equipment is.

Most car guys love fixing things, and with a race car you have to get things right.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Ya I added a rev limiter immediately after my bent valve episode, lol. It was only the second time I’d missed 3rd with that car, but I wasn’t power shifting the other time.

lesson learned.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I never "no lift shifted" until I got my FBO ignition module and distributor from Don. Once I started power shifting my 6bbl 440, I cut A HALF SECOND off my 1320 times!
Now I have a number of things to iron out with the half dozen systems I had installed in my Roadrunner that I just got back yesterday, and a brand new RXT 6923-05 dual disk McLeod clutch setup, Assassin traction bars, split mono leaf springs, sliders, triple adjustable SX Warrior shocks from Viking, and the all important HitMaster launch control system. Before I can even tweak the adjustments to the HitMaster, I have to break in the clutch. Fortunately it seems like I always get a new clutch right before Cruisin the Coast so I get a great opportunity to put miles on it.

 

[padam]

I never "no lift shifted" until I got my FBO ignition module and distributor from Don. Once I started power shifting my 6bbl 440, I cut A HALF SECOND off my 1320 times!
Now I have a number of things to iron out with the half dozen systems I had installed in my Roadrunner that I just got back yesterday, and a brand new RXT 6923-05 dual disk McLeod clutch setup, Assassin traction bars, split mono leaf springs, sliders, triple adjustable SX Warrior shocks from Viking, and the all important HitMaster launch control system. Before I can even tweak the adjustments to the HitMaster, I have to break in the clutch. Fortunately it seems like I always get a new clutch right before Cruisin the Coast so I get a great opportunity to put miles on it.

Can't wait to hear how it all works!

 

[padam]

By the way, what is FBO?

 

[R413]

Let’s not forget Kevin Helms 3 time stock eliminator national champ and back to back US Nationals winner in a 396 4 speed Camaro.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=30460

Don Keen stock eliminator national champ in a 428 4 speed mustang

Jim Waldo 2 time Stock Eliminator national champ in 4 speed 67 Fairlane and 69 Mustang. Later built a 4 speed firebird that won the US nationals A/S shootout multiple times with that car. Both of his sons have Each won the US Nationals and multiple other nationals in BB 4speed Nova and Mustang.


So saying a manual trans can’t be competitive is false.