Can a High Volume oil pump suck the floor up?

[moparedtn]

Rick Ehrenberg said that the original oil pickups were supposed to rest on the pan floor because they had a unique design at the bottom.

View attachment 1818934

That recess in the middle and at 6 to 9 o clock allow the oil to be pulled in. The Milodon screened pickups have no recess in them so they are supposed to be between 1/4" to 1/2" from the pan floor.

That's ultimately why I decided to stick with the original pickup on mine. Right or wrong, it strikes me as the better type.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Here's the new pick up which when I screwed it into the block until it was nice and tight, I dry installed the pan with windage and gaskets and it also hovered at 1/2" off the floor. Right there and then, I thought the manufacturer screwed up being that they told me that they set up the pick up and pan on a mocked block. The question is, did they have a windage tray and two sets of gaskets when they mocked it up?

Note the pick up tube itself which enters on the side wall is actually closer to the bottom of the pan than the previous black one. If you were to measure where the previous black pick up tube actually picked up oil, the tubes mouth must have been a full 1-1/2" inches higher from the floor because of its entry at the top of the screened box. You feel me?

1/4" to 3/8" max distance is the norm? Yes indeed on a regular pan, but is it crucial on a deep sump? The story continues.

 

[not so famous bob]

Duly noted.
1/4" to 3/8" off the floor I will have it set for sure. I'll just have to weld a 1/4" section of tube to the existing pick up tube because as it is now, by the time it tightens nicely in the block, the screened pick up box is 1/2" off the floor. Both pick ups oddly enough are short by a 1/4 " or so.
I don't want to give it one less turn into the block with locktite just to meet the optimum level.

I`d screw it in tite and level and not worry about it ...my swinging pick up is about 1/2'' off the floor of my 9 qt pan , with 7 1/2 qts in it / hi volume pump///

 

[RemCharger]

^^^ agree , this is being way over thunk.
With a high viscosity oil, with a positive displacement pump, with hig rpm, the last thing you want is cavitation at the suction head due to inadequate area/flow.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

^^^ agree , this is being way over thunk.
With a high viscosity oil, with a positive displacement pump, with hig rpm, the last thing you want is cavitation at the suction head due to inadequate area/flow.

Remcharger: So to end this, (due to inadequate area and flow) your thoughts are to install it at the preferred window height of 1/2" above the floor?

Thank you gentlemen for all of your patient inputs into this matter. I value peoples experienced and expertise on here.

That being said, there were some contradicting answers between this and another thread of the same subject, that led to my confusion to say the least, but I've still been taking it all into account to arrive at a preferred number. Perhaps all of that may have come from trying to understand the characteristics of a stock pan vs a deep sump. In either case, thank you much.
As a note, New York has for the most part lost its industrial edge when it comes to competent machine, welding and speed shops in the last 25 or so years with the exception of S&K Speed. A trip to the welding shop, a good one at that is a mission on Mars. I'm willing to if necessary. LOL.
I'll post up some images once the pan is up and snugged and masqueraded as STOCK. LOL.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Another possibility besides lengthening the pickup tube is drill and tap the passage to 1/2 hemi size. Perhaps trade the 3/8 for a 1/2" pickup or just buy new. Cut the thread depth so the pickup fits the pan the way you want.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Here's the old black anodized pick up that was set at 1/2" height off the floor. Note the tube entry at top side.

View attachment 1819214

Thank you.
Any chance you can share the dimensions of that "box"?

 

[j-c-c-62]

^^^ agree , this is being way over thunk.
With a high viscosity oil, with a positive displacement pump, with hig rpm, the last thing you want is cavitation at the suction head due to inadequate area/flow.

High viscosity oil, meaning thicker I believe is less likely to cavitate.

The issue being overlooked here is atmospheric pressure is a finite number, and that is the main thing with gravity helping oil find its way into the pickup. Running vacuum pumps with a wet sump reduces the help ambient oil pan atmospheric pressure provides feeding the oil pump. Regardless, all the oil required by the pump is restricted by the area of the pickup inlet tube (less than .5"D?) multiplied the length of that tube/restriction. I submit any other area of restriction that is under consideration here that is greater by than more than twice(?) the size of the pickup tube cross-sectional area and many factors shorter, is not worthy of consideration, beyond the design needed of preventing sucking air.

 

[RemCharger]

High viscosity oil, meaning thicker I believe is less likely to cavitate.

The issue being overlooked here is atmospheric pressure is a finite number, and that is the main thing with gravity helping oil find its way into the pickup. Running vacuum pumps with a wet sump reduces the help ambient oil pan atmospheric pressure provides feeding the oil pump. Regardless, all the oil required by the pump is restricted by the area of the pickup inlet tube (less than .5"D?) multiplied the length of that tube/restriction. I submit any other area of restriction that is under consideration here that is greater by than more than twice(?) the size of the pickup tube cross-sectional area and many factors shorter, is not worthy of consideration, beyond the design needed of preventing sucking air.

I would think the thicker oil would be more resistant to flow, therefore making it more willing to try and pull air in. Some builders have put plates on top of the sump to reduce vortex

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Thank you.
Any chance you can share the dimensions of that "box"?

Sure thing.
3-1/8" across X 1" high X 1-9/16th wide.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

High viscosity oil, meaning thicker I believe is less likely to cavitate.

The issue being overlooked here is atmospheric pressure is a finite number, and that is the main thing with gravity helping oil find its way into the pickup. Running vacuum pumps with a wet sump reduces the help ambient oil pan atmospheric pressure provides feeding the oil pump. Regardless, all the oil required by the pump is restricted by the area of the pickup inlet tube (less than .5"D?) multiplied the length of that tube/restriction. I submit any other area of restriction that is under consideration here that is greater by than more than twice(?) the size of the pickup tube cross-sectional area and many factors shorter, is not worthy of consideration, beyond the design needed of preventing sucking air.

I run 20W50 all season by the way.

 

[DeltaV]

Use a dry sump