Carb or EFI

[Gobie]

I’m building my 440 motor now I’m to the point where gotta make a decision on fuel whether it’s a 850 carb or EFI ??
I put kB 237 pistons in with the Hughes engine top end kit shld be 500 hp they recommended 850 carb but which one any recommendation out there this gonna be a street car. 69 sport satty

 

[Gobie]

My motor now

 

[aeon280]

With the price of EFI dropping go with a fitech 600 or similar. Once you start getting over 650 CFM in a carb your options get limited for street carbs. Most are double pump Holley designs more geared toward track work . Great carbs for track work but not exactly fuel efficient. The little extra you spend on EFI now you will probably recover in fuel savings over the course of 1 or 2 driving seasons. Not to mention the ease of use. The last 850 carb I had was on a 455 poncho motor and I averaged 6mpg. Currently have dual holley 390 on Tunnel Ram and just moving the car from storage to paint and back and forth in the garage over the last year Ive burned through 15gals of fuel.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Efi all day long. Way easier to tune, better throttle response, better fuel mileage, and just plain bad ***!

 

[1967coronet440]

Another vote for EFI

 

[747mopar]

With the price of EFI dropping go with a fitech 600 or similar. Once you start getting over 650 CFM in a carb your options get limited for street carbs. Most are double pump Holley designs more geared toward track work . Great carbs for track work but not exactly fuel efficient. The little extra you spend on EFI now you will probably recover in fuel savings over the course of 1 or 2 driving seasons. Not to mention the ease of use. The last 850 carb I had was on a 455 poncho motor and I averaged 6mpg. Currently have dual holley 390 on Tunnel Ram and just moving the car from storage to paint and back and forth in the garage over the last year Ive burned through 15gals of fuel.

Not really fair to blame a carb for poor fuel mileage, more than likely it was the engine combo, gearing, tuning, etc that caused the poor results. "Holley style carbs more geared towards the track"?... false! They offer plenty of options both for street and track and can knock down some pretty impressive fuel economy if set up correctly.

I'm running a Quickfuel Q series 750 double pumper (Holley style) on my Charger... no choke.. basically a race carb and getting 20 mpg with a 456 stroker. It's the combo, 3:55 gears and an overdrive with a properly tuned engine.

Having said all of that I love EFI and nobody can argue the benefits that come with it, I just like nuts and bolts vs computers on my classics.

If the money is there go EFI, If you choose to go with a carb I'd sugget a 750. I ran both and the 750 is so much cleaner around town.

 

[Gobie]

Which one do you guys use??

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I’m building my 440 motor now I’m to the point where gotta make a decision on fuel whether it’s a 850 carb or EFI ??
I put kB 237 pistons in with the Hughes engine top end kit shld be 500 hp they recommended 850 carb but which one any recommendation out there this gonna be a street car. 69 sport satty

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1138882606178838/ <--Join this group before deciding if FiTech is right for you, it was started when FiTech's were failing everywhere and customer support was non-existent. I'm not saying they're terrible (FiTech), but these systems are a far stretch from bolt-on-and-go.

I don't know. Modern -factory engineered OEM- EFI is fantastic, when its MPFI or Direct Injection. TBI isn't that beneficial over a carburetor, the main issue (which is magnified with forced-induction) is improper fuel-distribution which isn't solved with TBI. Yes you can data-log, and spend countless hours looking over graphs and tuning. I would like to say these systems would prefer a modern style EFI camshaft with 114-116 LSA (low-overlap & minimal reversion) in order to self-learn easier. Some guys get them to run with large(r) than average camshafts, others don't. For a 440, I would choose something mild, like the .528 MP solid with 112 LSA.

Most problems with carbs (poor starting, fuel-boiling, etc.) are associated with mechanical fuel pumps and no return system; which both will be required with an aftermarket TBI unit (can't forget a good regulator). Please don't be a victim of the command center that FiTech offers, complete JUNK that has failed nearly everyone (i've been on the group since the beginning of FiTech as I was initially interested), so yes, you'll need a true return style system despite what they may tell you! My engine with a 259/267 @ .050 SFT camshaft will start up and idle immediately out of the car, absolutely no drama, with an 850 double-pumper. Yes, you'll need a Wideband 02 gauge in the car to tune a carburetor properly, but really, shouldn't any performance engine have one in 2017? About the only application I would go TBI would be for an older off-road rig, but then again, Holley has specialty carburetors for those applications as well.

I just have this -awful- feeling that a FiTech would leave me stranded on the power tour or cruising the coast, it's another 'lets pray it doesn't fail item' as there are no local parts available to fix it on the side of the highway. If the quality-control was better, maybe I wouldn't worry so much, but from what I've seen on that group; they are no different to me than 440source at this point. Lots of issues with Holley Snipers etc. as well, so I'm not saying FiTech is the only one and that many issues aren't derived from improper installation.

 

[747mopar]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1138882606178838/ <--Join this group before deciding if FiTech is right for you, it was started when FiTech's were failing everywhere and customer support was non-existent. I'm not saying they're terrible (FiTech), but these systems are a far stretch from bolt-on-and-go.

I don't know. Modern -factory engineered OEM- EFI is fantastic, when its MPFI or Direct Injection. TBI isn't that beneficial over a carburetor, the main issue (which is magnified with forced-induction) is improper fuel-distribution which isn't solved with TBI. Yes you can data-log, and spend countless hours looking over graphs and tuning. I would like to say these systems would prefer a modern style EFI camshaft with 114-116 LSA (low-overlap & minimal reversion) in order to self-learn easier. Some guys get them to run with large(r) than average camshafts, others don't. For a 440, I would choose something mild, like the .528 MP solid with 112 LSA.

Most problems with carbs (poor starting, fuel-boiling, etc.) are associated with mechanical fuel pumps and no return system; which both will be required with an aftermarket TBI unit (can't forget a good regulator). Please don't be a victim of the command center that FiTech offers, complete JUNK that has failed nearly everyone (i've been on the group since the beginning of FiTech as I was initially interested), so yes, you'll need a true return style system despite what they may tell you! My engine with a 259/267 @ .050 SFT camshaft will start up and idle immediately out of the car, absolutely no drama, with an 850 double-pumper. Yes, you'll need a Wideband 02 gauge in the car to tune a carburetor properly, but really, shouldn't any performance engine have one in 2017? About the only application I would go TBI would be for an older off-road rig, but then again, Holley has specialty carburetors for those applications as well.

I just have this -awful- feeling that a FiTech would leave me stranded on the power tour or cruising the coast, it's another 'lets pray it doesn't fail item' as there are no local parts available to fix it on the side of the highway. If the quality-control was better, maybe I wouldn't worry so much, but from what I've seen on that group; they are no different to me than 440source at this point. Lots of issues with Holley Snipers etc. as well, so I'm not saying FiTech is the only one and that many issues aren't derived from improper installation.

Yes, being stranded over specialty parts is always something I consider since I do at least 1 long haul every summer. Also the advice on fuel delivery using an electric pump and return style regulator on today's fuel is a worth it's weight. I'm still running a mechanical pump and have pretty good luck with the occasional embarrassing moments where it takes a bit of cranking to start. Just keep in mind todays fuels aren't designed for old cars, it boils at a lower temp meaning it doesn't like sitting idle in a fuel line next to your headers or in a bowl on top of the engine. Keep the fuel moving and put a spacer under the carb if going that route.

 

[CoronetDarter]

I have FiTech on the Coronet and an Eddy carb on the Dart; Dart is by far the more reliable car. Claims of EFI plug-n-play, just drive it and the unit self-learns are not entirely true. The FiTech was easy to install, but it's been plagued with hot start issues, idle instability, WOT transition issues. EFI systems require fine tuning based upon your specific application, the "learning" feature only gets you part of the way home. Granted, I bought a first-gen FiTech unit a couple of years ago; apparently newer versions are more reliable.
Keep in mind, even though the cost of EFI has dropped dramatically over the last couple of years, you still have to update the fuel delivery system, including return lines. That adds complexity and several hundred dollars to the equation.
Lastly, honestly assess what you want out of your car. if you plan on driving a few thousand miles a year with extended trips, the EFI makes more sense. Only 1,000 miles around town to car shows, etc., I'd lean towards the carb.

 

[Cranky]

Don't know about the aftermarket FI but my 95 Dakota V6 has never got more than 16 in town and my 2000 Durango 5.2 is at 13-14. The soon to be X only gets 11-12. She has a heavy foot and doesn't let off until the last minute for red lights and stop signs. My 92 Dakota 5.2 with 3.90 gears went low 15's and got 15 in town while the 71 340 Cuda with a TQ got 17 in town with 3.55 gears and did 14.0s with the factory air cleaner on it. However, the 95 is still kicking without ever touching the throttle body but I did have to replace a couple of injectors because of a load of very dirty gas. It surprises me to this day how it hasn't required much if any maintenance but it is idling a bit rough these days. I mean, it's only 23 and counting. The Cuda was the least maintenance as far as carbs go with the Holley equipped vehicles requiring the most maintenance as far as carb tuning goes.....

 

[oldbee]

Well the real question is— do you trust computers I guess. Old school for me, I’ve messed with computer crap & I still don’t trust it! Of course computers aren’t going away. A side story is nighttime with lights on and turn on a turn signal and that same side fog light comes on(?) on a semi-truck,but where does it end?

 

[Gobie]

I just want a carb I don’t have to always tinker with every time I drive the car I won’t be doing any long trips in this car..

 

[oldbee]

I just want a carb I don’t have to always tinker with every time I drive the car I won’t be doing any long trips in this car..

Any carb would be fine as long as the fuel stays clean. But, that only happens 80%(?) of the time.

 

[Yatzee]

I’m building my 440 motor now I’m to the point where gotta make a decision on fuel whether it’s a 850 carb or EFI ??
I put kB 237 pistons in with the Hughes engine top end kit shld be 500 hp they recommended 850 carb but which one any recommendation out there this gonna be a street car. 69 sport satty

This is just plain bunk and for paranoia addicts:
"I just have this -awful- feeling that a FiTech would leave me stranded on the power tour or cruising the coast, it's another 'lets pray it doesn't fail item' as there are no local parts available to fix it on the side of the highway. If the quality-control was better, maybe I wouldn't worry so much, but from what I've seen on that group; they are no different to me than 440source at this point."
I would suppose if one owned a modern car they could pretty much say the same, but they don't. Where would you find a throttle body for a new car on demand. Most EFI's are made following OEM designs prior to multi-port injection. As a matter of fact, the injectors, TPS's,
IAC's and other components are OE aftermarket parts. Even O2 sensors are Bosch or Delphi.
I've installed and run MSD and FiTech on cars that register more than 13,000 a year without failure or so much as a hiccup. If anything would fail, it would probably be the fuel pump or one of those sad installations where, "when all else fails, read the manual". The EFI units today are pretty much "rock solid" regardless of brand but trying to teach a "carb" guy their function can be a formidable task. Some people just don't like change.

 

[oldbee]

Well yatzee I will say that a semi-truck that goes 100,000 miles in a years time might not be a normal comparison , but the fact remains this ‘crap’ should work much better after all this time. Jeez, I just picked up my main car from bodyshop yesterday and noticed the trans shifting different; why? Because they pulled ‘codes’ to see if any problems before&after for liability issues I assume. Now the trans has to “relearn” how we drive the car?

 

[Mike67]

X2 on FI
Terminator-although it may not be as pretty as some of the others all the components are accessible and not integral to the body;, injectors, IAC, TPS are external and can be changed if needed, I believe they are GM based and can be bought at any parts house from what I'm told.
I am yet to run my Terminator...or my car for that matter, I looked at it as a self tuning carb. Weather, altitude won't affect it, it will compensate for just about any driving condition cruising or all out track. Of course this is dependent on the input it receives. It should maintain optimum performance.
I don't think I will have to worry about dried out accelerator pumps, leaking bowl gaskets, stuck needle valves or seats, no crap plugging a metering block or in carb bowls and no setting of floats...
maybe my expectations are high, maybe I'm lazy...but tuning a carb ranks right up there with bleeding brakes, and every time you think you got it, you usually don't and have to keep messing with it....unless you a carb wizard...which I am not...

 

[Gobie]

Dam those are out of my price range

 

[Mike67]

Me too, I just happened to find someone getting rid of one that decided to change directions so I got a pretty good deal on it.

 

[threewood]

I'm in the ballpark with your motor (237, Stealth Heads, Hughes solid cam, headers) and I chose to run an 800 cfm Edelbrock AVS Thunder carb. Vacuum secondary, manual choke. FI was out of my budget at the time but I wtill like my choice. Very streetable and minimal setup. It ran pretty good out of the box. An issue I did have was fuel evap in the bowl causing psi to drop. This was during +100° weather. Fixed with an electric fuel pump. It was $370 ish