Carburetor > Fuel Injection
- Thread starter Michael_
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Yeah whatever !!
BeepBeepRR
Well-Known Member
Running rich out of the box... The new carb needs a tune as well as the old one needed some work. But throw 485.00 at it rather than a 40 dollar rebuild kit.
The point is that every fool can swap out a factory carburetor with another factory carburetor while the fuel injection parts are located all over the car / cant be swapped as a whole.
Of course if you are going to use an aftermarkt carburetor like an Edelbrock or Holley you have to tune / match it to your specific engine.
But if your engine came with a Carter Carburetor from the Factory it should be pretty easy to find out which jets etc. you need when using an Edelbrock.
??? Why would you want to swap it as a whole when there is a single point of failure ??? If I have a faulty ECU, O2 sensor or MAP sensor why would I want to swap anything but those ??? And the simple fact is that EFI systems are considerably trouble-free. Of course you'll hear about people having issues with aftermarket units because its human nature to whine about their problems - not tout the good things. I've never heard of a single case where someone has bought an aftermarket carb and bolted on and didn't need to tune it in some way, shape or form - and doing it often involves purchasing aditional jets or what have you AND a lot of time to get things right. A "self-learning" EFI system will yeild a decent tune. And fine tuning can all be done with a handheld or laptop - no additional parts required.
All I'm saying is carbs aren't the be-all, end-all.
Because you are dealing with just 1 part instead of multiple. So it makes diagnosing/fixing easier.
I'm not a professional mechanic and i had issues with the Bosch Fuel Injection on our 1989 Mercedes 560 SEC before.
At that point i wished it was carbureted because then i would've just swapped the carburetor and called it a day.
By the way, both our 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme and the Mercedes have a V8 with about the same displacement (350cui), rear axle ratio and 1:1 in last gear.
The olds has a Rochester Quadrajet, the Mercedes Bosch Fuel Injection.
Both cars get pretty similar gas mileage. So the fuel injection isn't even saving gas but adds more complexity anyway.
The location of some fuel injection parts can also be hard to reach sometimes. (for swapping out)
BeepBeepRR
Well-Known Member
I understand the simplicity of just swapping a carb out. The fact that he is complaining about the air in the garage explains a lot about how important it is to tune the carb and not just stuff it on there and hope for the best. I bet that thing was running rich and causing his eyes to burn.
Possible but on the other hand if someone wants to commit suicide running ANY classic car pre catalytic converters in a closed garage will work just fine.
Rennkafer
Well-Known Member
Comparing a 50+year old Bosch system to a modern one is somewhat ludicrous if you know anything about EFI. I've worked on those systems professionally, as well as carbs, as well as modern systems. I'd run a modern system in a heartbeat over a carb (and I'm in process of doing so).
Rebelrouser
Well-Known Member
This is EXACTLY why i would always take a carburetor over fuel injection.
Just had to share it.
Hopefully I will live long enough to finish, but doing a 65 dodge convertible with a 5.7 hemi, and I put carbs on it just because I think it would look neat when I open the hood. I can work on both carbs and injection. My street car now has a supercharger with a FiTech injection system. After some bugs at first it runs great. One thing I would point out is the Fitech system uses over the counter GM and Volkswagen parts available at most parts stores, they will even give you the part numbers. Any system injection or carb will need tuned out of the box. I build a few carbs for people and to tell you the truth very few people know how to properly tune a carb and have the parts to do it. I have installed many Holley and Fitech injections and after I show them how to use the handheld many people get it right away. When I am tuning carb and I open my box with 50 years of jets, metering rods, power valves etc. their eyes bug out and they are totally lost.
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But if you watch the tv shows, instead of a simple carb rebuild or carb tuning, you’re suppose to just have your sponsor give a free efi setup and pay to have someone do all the tuning for it for you……
Except that some don't even know how much coolant to put in their radiator.
Have you actually read some of the threads here where they drag on for 4-5+ pages because of a carburettor not running correctly?
Here is a recent example.... CO is killing me.
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I've stated before that I seem to be charmed. The bad luck that many people claim to have is the opposite for me. I must be lucky.
I haven't had that many carburetor problems. I've had some but the main car in my small group of classics is the red car....
It is nothing too complicated, just a Holley based Demon 850 vacuum secondary. The car always starts and runs great in weather between 35 degrees and 110. It does not fail. Am I lucky? I've changed jets, power valves, metering blocks but that is it. I've never messed with air bleeds, accelerator pump cams, squirter nozzles or the PVCR system. If I were a drag racer looking for the fastest ETs, I would have tinkered with it more.
The Holley 600 in my 75 Power Wagon is great too. The truck can sit for months and still start up fairly quick, then idle great. I have a Holley 750 in Jigsaw....
That car always funs great.
The 67 Dart has a Holley 600...
That car sits for months too.
In fact, the only classic that I have that has had carburetor problems is this one...
It has sat almost completely idle for years at a time. I went through the carb but it still won't run right. It too is a Holley 600 but it's problems extend outside of what a basic rebuild would fix.
I've considered EFI for the red car but the way I see it, throttle body systems are a crutch. The automakers only used them as a stop-gap to develop the superior port injection systems. I'm of the opinion that the Sniper/FITech and other throttle body systems still have some of the same drawbacks as carbureted cars. No thanks. If I ever build a 3rd gen Hemi for Jigsaw, I would consider a factory based EFI system but until then, HARD pass.
Yes, carburetors are simple, yet complicated at the same time. A man with limited skills can just swap on another carburetor and keep his car mobile. EFI, especially aftermarket systems...can break down and leave you waiting for days, weeks or months for that one proprietary part that only one small "3 person company" makes. I could get on the phone now and in 15 minutes, find 4 friends with Holley carburetors I could borrow if I needed to.
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