Chrysler Big Block Redline??

[Sir Dodge alot]

361 2bbl (I don't know if there ever was a stock 361 4bbl, I doubt it) was rated peak hp at 4400. I'm betting there is NO power to be had above 4500 (or, honestly, 4000-4200) with sixty year old valve springs.
When I was young and stupid, I revved a small block/four speed combo to 7500 at the drags, cause it would. In hindsight, I think my car would have been considerably faster, if I had shifted it at 6500. It took quite a while to get from 6000 to 7500 in third.

Ain't the super red ram a hopped up 361 with dual quads?

 

[AR67GTX]

About 1968/69 I worked in a grocery store with a stocker who drove a 63 2-door sedan Belvedere, ex-Highway Patrol car that was equipped with a 361, 4bbl, dual exhaust, search light and all. It ran well but wasn’t amazingly quick.

Seems there is confusion above over how high a 361 can be built to rev, and how high a stock, small port head, mild cam, factory valve springs with who knows how many thousands of miles and a 2.76 rear, will rev. Not the same thing.

 

[HawkRod]

So I have a couple of comments to add:

Gotcha, stronger valve springs?

As many have said, your valve springs are the limiting factor here. They are probably weak and not doing their job any more. BUT, stronger springs also come with more pressure on the cam. With a well broken in cam and zinc in your oil, you'll be OK. But match the spring pressure to your cam. If you have a street performance cam, your open pressure should be in the 300 # range. Higher than that does nothing other than put extra pressure on your cam.

...Stock Mopar's can pump the oil pan dry at extended high rpms...

The oiling system is the life blood of your engine. ALL PARTS need to be up to the task.
When you go drag racing, the stock oil pan sucks. The first problem is quantity, and you can suck the oil dry. The other issue is baffling. You need baffles to keep the oil around the pickup tube. When you accelerate hard, the oil runs to the back, so baffles are required there. But what most don't think about is when you are at max RPM, and then suddenly throw on the brakes. This is what happens at the end of the race. Guess where the oil goes now? So you need good oil baffles front and rear in your oil pan, plus greater quantity.
If you don't want an oil pan hanging down, I recommend the Hemi pan that Milodon and 440 Source sell (maybe others too).

 

[toolmanmike]

Isin't the super red ram from 1960? 1958? A hopped up 361?

That's the only thing that comes to mind as you said screamer.

Here's what I found.

361​

The 361 cu in B engine also introduced in 1958 was essentially the same as the 350 except with a larger 4+1⁄8 in (105 mm; 4.12 in) bore, for an actual displacement of 360.83 cu in (5,913 cc). In 1962, the Dodge Polara 500 came standard with a 305 bhp (227 kW) version of the 361 that had a four-barrel carburetor, dual-point distributor, and dual exhausts. Plymouth called their versions of the early B engine the Commando, variants of which included the Golden Commando and Sonoramic Commando. It produced 305 bhp (227 kW). DeSoto's B engine was named Turboflash and produced 295 bhp (220 kW). The Dodge standard version was a 2-barrel with 295 bhp (220 kW) called the Super Red Ram with an optional variant that was called the D500 and produced 320 bhp (239 kW).

 

[AR67GTX]

I believe 305 hp is what my friend told me his 63 361 Belvedere was rated at and ToolmanMike’s post above jogs my memory of it having a dual point distributor. It was basically just a slightly smaller version of the 383, 4bbl, dual point in my 64 Sport Fury. I assume the 4bbl was part of the police package but it’s always possible it was swapped on after it was retired from service.

 

[maxwedgechar]

My friend who raced Maxes when they were new told me that they would put 5 or 6 quarts into the valve covers at WOT. Knowing how I drive I put a Milodon pan on Max.

 

[maxwedgechar]

@AR67GTX Yes, the '59 was rated at 305 HP. And I think the guy who put the motor together that day did his job! She seemed to be a particularly nasty car for the big tank that she was.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Here's what I found.

361​

The 361 cu in B engine also introduced in 1958 was essentially the same as the 350 except with a larger 4+1⁄8 in (105 mm; 4.12 in) bore, for an actual displacement of 360.83 cu in (5,913 cc). In 1962, the Dodge Polara 500 came standard with a 305 bhp (227 kW) version of the 361 that had a four-barrel carburetor, dual-point distributor, and dual exhausts. Plymouth called their versions of the early B engine the Commando, variants of which included the Golden Commando and Sonoramic Commando. It produced 305 bhp (227 kW). DeSoto's B engine was named Turboflash and produced 295 bhp (220 kW). The Dodge standard version was a 2-barrel with 295 bhp (220 kW) called the Super Red Ram with an optional variant that was called the D500 and produced 320 bhp (239 kW).

I don't remember my 361 62 Polara 500 having a dual point distributor. Seems an odd offering now for a rather lane motor IMO.

 

[toolmanmike]

I don't remember my 361 62 Polara 500 having a dual point distributor. Seems an odd offering now for a rather lane motor IMO.

Yes, that is interesting. I just looked through my Galen parts book and didn't see a 361 with a dual point. . Small print and lots of numbers to look through.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

So I have a couple of comments to add:


As many have said, your valve springs are the limiting factor here. They are probably weak and not doing their job any more. BUT, stronger springs also come with more pressure on the cam. With a well broken in cam and zinc in your oil, you'll be OK. But match the spring pressure to your cam. If you have a street performance cam, your open pressure should be in the 300 # range. Higher than that does nothing other than put extra pressure on your cam.


The oiling system is the life blood of your engine. ALL PARTS need to be up to the task.
When you go drag racing, the stock oil pan sucks. The first problem is quantity, and you can suck the oil dry. The other issue is baffling. You need baffles to keep the oil around the pickup tube. When you accelerate hard, the oil runs to the back, so baffles are required there. But what most don't think about is when you are at max RPM, and then suddenly throw on the brakes. This is what happens at the end of the race. Guess where the oil goes now? So you need good oil baffles front and rear in your oil pan, plus greater quantity.
If you don't want an oil pan hanging down, I recommend the Hemi pan that Milodon and 440 Source sell (maybe others too).

For sure I need to take everything into consideration, Windage tray, deep pan, the oil as well!

I have been running 15W-40 diesel oil high on zinc.

Speaking of high spring pressure equating to more down force on the cam,
I took out the lifters to clean them up a few years back, the lifters were dished and the cam had a round hump looking taper, I realize cams have a 10* to 15* taper to them but the "taper" I saw on the cam was telling me.
" Yo, I'm tired, rebuild me."

But all in all the rig I drive isn't a racer, as if it wasn't obvious enough XD

It's a 64' Dodge custom 880, one of the last Forward look cars, it resembled the 1962 Dodge Dart, same forward look car?

 

[j-c-c-62]

It's a 64' Dodge custom 880, one of the last Forward look cars, it resembled the 1962 Dodge Dart, same forward look car?

Owning a number of 62 Darts, not sure I would go that far, maybe "rearward looking"?

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Owning a number of 62 Darts, not sure I would go that far, maybe "rearward looking"?

Haha I see what you did there, good one!

 

[Geoff 2]

When you hear the 'bang', that is the redline.....

 

[mrhemi]

Not exactly related to the OP, but a good story none the less. Years ago, Ron and Bob Keselowski stopped by my place to see my Charger R/T, now that it was completed (Ron built the Hemi engine in it for me). While we were out for the obligatory drive, rowing through the gears, Bob commented "How tight are you spinnin' this, sounds like 7000 rpm" (it is a stock 426, through the stock exhaust). I replied not really sure, that's where I always shift. Ron replied "It's fine, got good pistons in it." A couple months later, I installed a hidden MSD 6AL (triggered by the original Prestolite dual point). During the initial test drive, post install, I promptly bounced it off the rev limiter, with a 7000 rpm chip in it. So, the stock Hemi rpm is up there. I shift at 6200 rpm now days.

 

[68BabyBlue]

So I have a couple of comments to add:
When you go drag racing, the stock oil pan sucks. The first problem is quantity, and you can suck the oil dry. The other issue is baffling. You need baffles to keep the oil around the pickup tube. When you accelerate hard, the oil runs to the back, so baffles are required there. But what most don't think about is when you are at max RPM, and then suddenly throw on the brakes. This is what happens at the end of the race. Guess where the oil goes now? So you need good oil baffles front and rear in your oil pan, plus greater quantity.
If you don't want an oil pan hanging down, I recommend the Hemi pan that Milodon and 440 Source sell (maybe others too).

Story told to me by my former brother-in-law, provides a real life example. When he was the dealership service manager, he had a '69 Hemi Road Runner as a company car. At the end of the model year, it was replaced with a new Hemi 'Cuda, and the Road Runner was sold to a Penn State student. One Monday morning, the kid was running late for class, and confessed to running 7000 rpm from Oil City to State College. He pulled the car into the shop with a bearing rapping.

Bill Clark figured it would be cheaper to install a new short block under warranty than to repair the original engine. He told a mechanic to lock the accelerator down at full throttle. The crew took a coffee break, and when the Hemi stopped running, they surveyed the damage. The engine had locked up, but the rods held. The original engine was rebuilt under warranty, and the Road Runner lives to this day as a numbers matching car. My brother-in-law raced that car with a modified pan, but it was removed when the car was sold, to keep the warranty intact.

 

[PRHeads]

My only experience with a 361 was the one that was in my 69 Charger when I was a kid in the USAF in Sacramento, Ca.
That was long before I knew anything about anything.
I bought the car off a used car lot.
Opened the hood, saw a 4bbl big block, checked the 5th digit in the vin(H), figured it was a 383 in need of a good tune up.
A tune up revealed no added performance.
And the high-15 second runs in 1/4 seemed off.
It wouldn’t really even do a burnout on the street.
I did some digging and found a “C 361” stamping under the distributor. Okay……now things make a little more sense.
Found a 440 to rebuild, and started moving forward with that.
In the meantime I’m still driving the car with the 361……..and driving it in a manner you’d expect a 22yo would.
One day I really wound it out hard…….. and it just shut off.
No fanfare, no drama……..it was like you just shut the key off.
I figured I blew it up.
It turned over with no effort……. Then I thought maybe the timing chain failed.
After messing around for 20-30 minutes……… it restarted, ran rough for a minute or so, then was fine.
Apparently it had floated the valves hard enough to allow the lifters to pump way up, which hung the valves open…….and then the motor shut off.
When the lifters finally bled back down…….. it fired back up.

 

[toolmanmike]

My only experience with a 361 was the one that was in my 69 Charger when I was a kid in the USAF in Sacramento, Ca.
That was long before I knew anything about anything.
I bought the car off a used car lot.
Opened the hood, saw a 4bbl big block, checked the 5th digit in the vin(H), figured it was a 383 in need of a good tune up.
A tune up revealed no added performance.
And the high-15 second runs in 1/4 seemed off.
It wouldn’t really even do a burnout on the street.
I did some digging and found a “C 361” stamping under the distributor. Okay……now things make a little more sense.
Found a 440 to rebuild, and started moving forward with that.
In the meantime I’m still driving the car with the 361……..and driving it in a manner you’d expect a 22yo would.
One day I really wound it out hard…….. and it just shut off.
No fanfare, no drama……..it was like you just shut the key off.
I figured I blew it up.
It turned over with no effort……. Then I thought maybe the timing chain failed.
After messing around for 20-30 minutes……… it restarted, ran rough for a minute or so, then was fine.
Apparently it had floated the valves hard enough to allow the lifters to pump way up, which hung the valves open…….and then the motor shut off.
When the lifters finally bled back down…….. it fired back up.

Yep. I did it to mine a half dozen times.

 

[theman440]

I used to spin my stock crank/stock rod 440 to 7200 rpm. Never came apart. Balanced, fully prepped rods & light pistons of course. The stock eliminator guys spin their stuff well over 8000 rpm with factory weighted rotating parts.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

When you hear the 'bang', that is the redline.....

Ah yes, the forbidden bang, then everything goes silent...

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Not exactly related to the OP, but a good story none the less. Years ago, Ron and Bob Keselowski stopped by my place to see my Charger R/T, now that it was completed (Ron built the Hemi engine in it for me). While we were out for the obligatory drive, rowing through the gears, Bob commented "How tight are you spinnin' this, sounds like 7000 rpm" (it is a stock 426, through the stock exhaust). I replied not really sure, that's where I always shift. Ron replied "It's fine, got good pistons in it." A couple months later, I installed a hidden MSD 6AL (triggered by the original Prestolite dual point). During the initial test drive, post install, I promptly bounced it off the rev limiter, with a 7000 rpm chip in it. So, the stock Hemi rpm is up there. I shift at 6200 rpm now days.

Ok, all my fears for the 5000RPM worry seems so small considering these BB Chryslers can go up to 7000 RPM, albeit if the parts can handle that in stock form!