Coolant in oil, fresh build

[eldubb440]

that flat tappet cam isn't going to be happy, I would seriously consider fresh assembly lube

I was under the assumption this happened during break in....... carry on

 

[Don Frelier]

I was under the assumption this happened during break in....... carry on

 

[padam]

I would do everything possible to pin point the leak before jumping to conclusions. As I mentioned before, pressurize the cooling system.
Compression test is useful.
Look at the plugs etc…

 

[Bird 426]

I doubt that you have hurt anything with coolant in your oil, it did not look like chiffon . Oops, I am probably the only one here that knows what that is, it was a dessert, think flavored whip cream. You can follow all of the ways to find it. I have a small block with Felpro head gaskets, and retorquing the head stopped an external coolant leak. Resurfaced block and new cyl heads. I just do it now, there are always 2-5 studs that will need it. Not saying to not look for the leak.

 

[dvw]

Pull the plugs. If one is much cleaner than the others you have found the clylinder that is suspect. If they all look the same? Air up each cylinder with the valves closed. This requires either getting the tested cylinder directly at TDC or BDC. Easier yet since you know it has to come apart. Remove the rocker shafts. Then air up each cylinder. Watch for bubbles in the radiator. There are only three posibilities. Head gasket, cracked head, cracked block. Was the deck surfaced during the build?
Doug

 

[Krooser]

Looking for pics, I wanna say its a '71. Stock bore .030" over.

It's either a stock bore or it's .030 over...can't be both.

I would drain the coolant and refill with water after you do....

#1 Retorque the heads to be sure a couple bolts weren't missed.

#2 Pull the plugs and do a compression test to check for a low cylinder.

A compression test will find the the suspect cylinder.

After it's repaired drain the oil overnight.

Refill with diesel fuel. Flush the engine using a couple gallons of #2 diesel fuel....pour it down the engine thru the heads and valley pan with the oil drain plug installed. Spark plugs out. Crank the engine with the diesel in the pan to help flush out the water.

Drain the diesel, refill with 30 weight oil. Crank the engine again ( plugs out) to wash out the diesel.

Start the engine and bring up to operating temp. Run it 30 minutes to help the water to evaporate.

After you are satisfied the coolant is gone drain the oil, refill with more 30 wt. and drive it for a few miles to maybe 200 miles. Keep your eye on the dipstick to check on the oil condition.

You want to use a heavy single grade oil when doing this to keep the film strength good since some dudes is still diluting the engine oil.

I have done this flush deal many times back when we raced junkyard engines in our stock cars. We would flush out sludged up and abused engines every year.

We also flushed these engines at the dealers I worked at...lots of used cars came in with plugged oil systems, leaky head gaskets, etc.

Good luck....

 

[RJRENTON]

How screwed am I? Should I pull the engine right away or just the head? I am certain I caught this right away, it couldn't have run more than 45 seconds with coolant in the oil but that's long enough for it to circulate and get in all my nice new bearings. Experience only here please is a flush enough, if so is there an additive I should look into for getting rid of glycol? Or am screwed here and need to pull the engine no matter what. I still don't know the origin of the leak if its a cracked head, head gasket, or cracked block but I'm tempted to start with the low hanging fruit and just pull both heads.

Here's the play by play:
Fresh build I've been hawking the oil pressure and coolant temp (both mechanical) gauges and she's held solid 180deg so no overheating.
Blew smoke through an intersection, not a little it was a lot (think Uncle Buck), she misfired a bit and I saw the temp gauge go erratic shut her down immediately. Towed it home and found coolant on dipstick.
The Build:
'71 440rb stock bore .030"
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads 84cc
Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift 241/247 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam
RPM Performer Intake Manifold
Don't remember pistons but my CR was 10.x something
Felpro 1009 Head Gasket


View attachment 1671057

FYI.....on a GM/DDA 8V-92T diesel engine, which suffered a head O ring failure contaminating the lube oil, GM recommended the use of a compound called BUTILCELLOSOLVE ADDED to the oil, approximately one guart, to absorb and neutralize the effect of the ethylene glycol. Change the oil and filters after 6-8 hours of operation. On a subsequent tear down, no discernible effects on the bearings. Realizing that a 8V-92T engine has a 5 gallon oil capacity. ......just a thought.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Dibbons]

Doubt this is the problem, but I had a machine shop machine the cylinder heads to fit larger valve springs and one or more spring bottoms punched through the valve seat into the water jacket. Never fired up the engine because I kept adding more and more coolant without the radiator ever showing full. When I pulled the dipstick, I found out where all the coolant was going. Had double Iskendarian valve springs with damper installed at the time.

 

[OldGuyGTX]

It's either a stock bore or it's .030 over...can't be both.

I would drain the coolant and refill with water after you do....

#1 Retorque the heads to be sure a couple bolts weren't missed.

#2 Pull the plugs and do a compression test to check for a low cylinder.

A compression test will find the the suspect cylinder.

After it's repaired drain the oil overnight.

Refill with diesel fuel. Flush the engine using a couple gallons of #2 diesel fuel....pour it down the engine thru the heads and valley pan with the oil drain plug installed. Spark plugs out. Crank the engine with the diesel in the pan to help flush out the water.

Drain the diesel, refill with 30 weight oil. Crank the engine again ( plugs out) to wash out the diesel.

Start the engine and bring up to operating temp. Run it 30 minutes to help the water to evaporate.

After you are satisfied the coolant is gone drain the oil, refill with more 30 wt. and drive it for a few miles to maybe 200 miles. Keep your eye on the dipstick to check on the oil condition.

You want to use a heavy single grade oil when doing this to keep the film strength good since some dudes is still diluting the engine oil.

I have done this flush deal many times back when we raced junkyard engines in our stock cars. We would flush out sludged up and abused engines every year.

We also flushed these engines at the dealers I worked at...lots of used cars came in with plugged oil systems, leaky head gaskets, etc.

Good luck....

Many years ago we raised a sunken Chris Craft outfitted with counter rotating 413s, we used kerosene in the same procedure as you described to save the internals, but it didn't have head issues to trouble shoot. Both engines ran fine afterward.

 

[ohitsjustbrian]

Ok added some pictures, the fire rings on the gaskets were way out of round on the drivers side, imporperly torqued maybe, I checked a couple of the head bolts with the torque wrench before I pulled the heads and they were fine but now I wished I checked them all...
Also put a machinist straight edge on the heads and block and I could not get a .002" feeler gauge under anywhere, although I could only get one angle with the straight edge on the block when it's in the engine bay.

Not sure where to go from here, why did these get so out of whack? Would be nice to get down to root causes here.

left to right, cylinder # 8,6,4,2

from left to right, cylinder # 1,3,5,7

Passenger side

Drivers side

 

[#41]

The Felpro head gaskets are like that out of the package (not always very round).

From the plugs, I would be looking carefully around cylinder #1. Look closely at the head gasket for discolorations or other indications of lack of sealing. Clean the head and block around the cylinder looking for cracks. They can be very fine.

 

[BSB67]

My money is on #5 cylinder.

 

[bigbluedodge]

My money is on #5 cylinder.

It does look washed down. I got this bad news at a track a few years ago when a cylinder cracked near the bottom of the bore........still ran the number but made caramel soup out of the oil. It was the second race since a fresh build. I had another block but $1200 dollars worth of machining went out the window. Severe core shift made it impossible to even sleeve.

 

[khryslerkid]

I'd like to see the driver's side head.

Look for a crack in the #5 chamber and also check #5 cylinder wall all the way down.

We're these head gaskets reused like the valley pan gasket?

 

[ohitsjustbrian]

I'd like to see the driver's side head.

Look for a crack in the #5 chamber and also check #5 cylinder wall all the way down.

We're these head gaskets reused like the valley pan gasket?

The valley pan gasket was new when I installed it but I didn't paint it, I got a new one and I'm painting it this time. Made the same mistake with the oil pan, did I mention this is my first build

 

[khryslerkid]

The valley pan gasket was new when I installed it but I didn't paint it, I got a new one and I'm painting it this time. Made the same mistake with the oil pan, did I mention this is my first build

View attachment 1676876

Yep, I read it was your first build. Just checking the obvious things first.

Did you do any cleaning in #5 cylinder?

I'm not seeing any gasket contact on this chamber like on all the rest. Again, did you do any cleaning here?

 

[ohitsjustbrian]

Yes, I feel that you are wasting your time doing a pressure test as you already know that water is getting into the crankcase. Remove the plugs and spin the motor with someone watching for coolant coming out of a plug hole. That would be you starting point on which head to remove. You can then inspect the head gasket and look for any cracks in the cylinder wall of the offending wet cylinder. As far as retorque goes, another waste of time. A leak this bad won't magically be cured by overtightening the headbolts. Fel-Pro head gaskets are "Perma-Torque" and do not require a re-torque as head gaskets of yesteryear...

Spun motor no coolant came out of spark plug holes, probably because I had to start it again to move for the tow truck driver. I also put my torque wrench on 5 of the bolts before I took off the head and they were tight, I'm wishing I checked them all now...
I don't see any cracks in the cylinder walls, put a machinists straight edge on the head and couldn't get a .002" feeler gauge under anywhere, the head gasket looks out of round in some areas to me but some have said they come this way...not sure what to make of it all. I guess I just have 3 questions at this point:

1. Use fel pros 1009 again or get the MLS cometics
2. Re-use ARP head bolts or buy new set
3. Is machinist straight edge good enough or should I take heads to a shop

Gets pretty pricey if I do all these things but I also don't want to spend my time doing this again.

 

[69Bee]

With new heads, ARP bolts, HP gaskets, the lack of a complete gasket imprint on the head leads me to believe that the block is not level. Was the block milled? The other glaring thing I see with that gasket is that the fire ring in the last cylinder is broken (due to being crushed from pre-ignition or over torquing head bolts). Once broken, the head gasket gets blown out and you have a direct path for coolant to go from the water jacket into the cylinder.

 

[padam]

Am I wrong in thinking that coolant in the combustion chamber doesn’t necessarily mean you will get coolant in the oil?

 

[BSB67]

….The other glaring thing I see with that gasket is that the fire ring in the last cylinder is broken……

That doesn’t look good