Cooper Cobra Tires??

[#41]

Having run both on many cars, I think they are very comparable. Coop's have a better looking tread.

 

[Jerry Hall]

In the past two weeks I have been getting my GG1 GTX road worthy again. In doing so, I have replaced the LCA bushings, checked all other suspension components, replaced all three rubber brake hoses (two were collapsed) and all were original. When we cleaned up the tires while doing the suspension and brake work, I took the redline tires to Firestone as that was the brand after the guy there looked through his books it was determined that the tires were built October 1979. No signs of aging or dry rot and 50% tread. Then we checked the spare the next day and found that it had never been on the ground. It was a Goodyear dated December 66 and still had 15 psi of vintage air in it. No aging, cracking or rot on it either. The car itself is stock other than some 40 series Flowmaster mufflers on the original H pipe with newer aluminized tail pipes with the original tips welded on. There is many other things on it to original to believe. I drove it about 30 miles this afternoon and it will go for alignment next week. I have a new set of Coopers ready, but may see what my alignment shop has to say.

 

[MoparLeo]

The rubber does not have to crack.
It gets hard, loses its flexibility which it must have because a tire constantly flexes its shape going from flat on the contact area to round at the top. Flexing generates heat, heat causes the rubber compounds to eventually disintegrate. Summertime on the h-ways is littered with rubber from mostly old tires. From boat trailers, camping trailers, motorhomes etc... Tires that see little mileage over time.
Ever have a radiator hose fail ? They go bad from the inside out. You cannot determine chemical deterioration by a visual check.
Use the old tires for display, why risk damage to your car ?
Don't need a book to determine the age. The last 3 numbers would have been either 419,429,439,449 . That would mean the 41st week and so on. The last number for 69, 79, 89, 99 etc.. The last numbers of the DOT are the week and year of production. In the year 2000 they went from 3 digits to 4 to avoid confusion with the date codes. Since the 3 digit code used before 2000 was reused every 10 years, how did they determine it was made in 1979 and not 89 or 99 ? They usually didn't since tires would not last more than 20K miles on average or about 2-3 years.
My info comes form being in the Tire business starting in 1973 til 2008.
I woked thru 2 major tire recalls of the seventies and 2000. Have personally seen and adjusted tens of thousands of tires of all brands. Was a BFGoodrich T/A Certified Tire specialist from the late seventies when they were made in a single plant and were esentially custom made street tires. No steel belts back then. The tires were totally different from the tires made in the last 30 + years by Michelin/Goodrich/Uni-royal which only uses T/A labeled molds. Different tire internally. Want to know how old rubber performs ? Ask someone ho races on them. Old/Hard rubber= no traction.

 

[Jerry Hall]

The rubber does not have to crack. .Ever have a radiator hose fail ? They go bad from the inside out. You cannot determine chemical deterioration by a visual check. Use the old tires for display, why risk damage to your car ? Don't need a book to determine the age. The last 3 numbers would have been either 419,429,439,449 . The last numbers of the DOT are the week and year of production. In the year 2000 they went from 3 digits to 4 to avoid confusion with the date codes. Since the 3 digit code used before 2000 was reused every 10 years, how did they determine it was made in 1979 and not 89 or 99 ?

Markings on the tire itself 775-14, the Firestone insignia was removed in the 80's. The tires have no steel belts, so a blowout is unlikely to cause any damage to a fender or quarter panel.

 

[MoparLeo]

Sorry, the picture I was looking at was a car with B F Goodrich tires on it. The Alpha Numeric tire sizing was not- used until 1969 and the older Numeric system in the newer, lower profile tire sizing designation. was still in use at that time on the older tire molds. Bias ply only 83 series profile. The 7.75-14 was updated to the F78-14 in the new sizing system. The new sizing was lower in height and wider in the tread area than previous sizings. Blowouts have happened since the invention of the pneumatic tire. They don't have a separate under the tread "belt" to come off but it still has a thicker tread rubber that can definitely peel off.
Why take the chance that anything can happen ? You just want to be "right" about this ?

 

[haywire 440]

I had a 13 year old Cooper Cobra tire that looked very nice and it blew on the highway. It gave a warning though, by feeling like an “out of balance” wheel. I didn’t pull over fast enough and luckily only had minimal damage to the right rear quarter panel, a few scratches and the ends of the wheel well moldings had to be tweaked back in to shape. Lucky for the ‘69 Satellite Convertible and me.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Sorry, the picture I was looking at was a car with B F Goodrich tires on it. The Alpha Numeric tire sizing was not- used until 1969 and the older Numeric system in the newer, lower profile tire sizing designation. was still in use at that time on the older tire molds. Bias ply only 83 series profile. The 7.75-14 was updated to the F78-14 in the new sizing system. The new sizing was lower in height and wider in the tread area than previous sizings. Blowouts have happened since the invention of the pneumatic tire. They don't have a separate under the tread "belt" to come off but it still has a thicker tread rubber that can definitely peel off.
Why take the chance that anything can happen ? You just want to be "right" about this ?

It was never about "right or wrong ", I was just stating facts that were proven in the old Firestone manual, that this guy happened to still have. If I run the tires or not doesn't matter as I have put about 15K miles on this car since I have owned it with those tires. They don't, nor have ever had a weight on them, and run smooth as glass. The BFG's on the Coronet R/T were 7 years old when the two rears crapped out, with more than 4oz of weight on each, sitting right where you see it. The question I'm pondering is which do I trust more, old or new? I know I won't drive the Coronet R/T anywhere with the two tires that are still standing when it's finished. You can admit or not, but today's tires are designed to fail, just like the cars of today. They have all sorts of ratings or design limits that will always be your fault in an accident.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Have BFG T/A on my Super Bee. Tires were manufactured in Jan 2000. I have the receipt showing they were purchased from a Discount Tire store in late March 2000. So going on 21 years old. Tires were over 8 years old when the previous owner got the car. In the 11+ years he had it he never replaced them.. In addition to the age the rear tires are almost bald from prior owners doing burn outs. Front tires have a lot of tread remaining, showing they were never rotated.. All four wheels and tires are the same size.

I haven’t replaced them yet because I’m having tremendous difficulty deciding what to do about both the wheels and tires on the car. In addition the car had only moved 3.8 miles in the past year prior to two weeks ago. If it was 25 or 30 years ago my decision would be much easier. 2020 makes it agonizing..

A week ago I had the car briefly up to 60 mph, for less than 10 seconds.. The car and I survived.. I guess if Hagerty knew all this they would cancel my insurance policy..

I should start a thread to explain why the decision is so agonizing and why it sucks big time to be looking for wheels and tires for this car in 2020..

And what about the guy with the unrestored Black Ghost Challenger.. Is he really driving that thing with its original 51 year old Polyglas GT tires?!?!

Saw a 71 Cuda340 for sale for $99K that has Goodyear Eagle ST tires on it.. I used to run those tires decades ago, when a decent tire selection was available for these cars. The tires on that Cuda have to be at least 20 years old! Last time I bought a set of Eagle ST was in 1992.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

And what about the guy with the unrestored Black Ghost Challenger.. Is he really driving that thing with its original 51 year old Polyglas GT tires?!?!

It drives on reproduction Polyglas from John Kelsey

Goodyear Eagle STs are fine still run them on two of my cars.
Both are from the mid 90s. I know they are old and hard. But the show no open wear.

 

[moparedtn]

Fred came with a fairly new set of those repro Magnum 500's (there's apparently two sources for those,
one cheaper than the other and these must be those, judging from their loss of chrome from mostly sitting
in garages!).
He also has a set of BFG T/A's, also about a dozen years old and they don't even have 1,000 miles on them -
and they've kept balance well and go straight just fine, even ride real nice - but grip is downright scary on
wet pavement and nonexistent on gravel.
It's quite obvious they're hard as carps at this point and even though treadwear is nil, replacement is definitely
in the cards once finances allow.
I mean, they're rock hard rascals! Even the sound they make when I accidentally slip a clutch is weird.

 

[YY1]

Rubber in general is not what it used to be.


By the numbers, the Coopers have better traction and tread wear numbers than the Coker built T/A's.

...and cost less.

IIRC you can still find BFG built T/A tires. They have a suffix on the models names.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Rubber in general is not what it used to be.

That's what I'm trying to say.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Polyglas GT tires from John kelsey still have the same excellent quality

Carsten

 

[Ranger16]

My car had BFG's on it when I bought it, with LOTS of tread left on them. Half way home from a car show in MSP I had a belt separate and had to limp the rest of the way home. I replaced them with Coopers and am quite happy with them. No more BFG's for me.

 

[MoparLeo]

The point about old tires was not a matter of if it was a BFG tire. ALL tires are subject to the same thing. Mother Time. Just like a light bulb will work until it doesn't. Just because a tire has tread, looks good, balances well is all fine until it suddenly fails. I am sure there are plenty of Cooper stories out there as well.
What is sad is that all these "stories" are just like my dog is bigger than your dog..No point other than thinking you are different for some reason.
Just a heads up from someone who has had decades of real experience with many thousands of car tires. you guys have had experience with just a few. The numbers don't lie. Just be smart. Tires are made much better now than years ago. The good old days were not really that good for people that can remember that far back and not just regurgitate stories that have been passed down. Many so called "defects" are from lack of maintenance, impact damage, improper repairs etc... Tires are one of the most important things on a car. They are the only thing that lets a car accelerate or stop. " where the Rubber meets the road" is from an old Firestone Tire advertising campaign back in the sixties that says it all.
HP, Brake types don't matter if you don't have traction ( grip).
I was there and most of the tire business was in replacing tires that wore out in less than a year or belted tires whether they were bias belted or radial, fiberglass or steel or "Aramid". Poor traction, hard ride. BFG, Uni-Royal, Firestone, Goodyear, Dayton, Armstrong, Kelly-Springfield, Seiberling, Dunlop, Pirelli, and many others that had tread separations. The technology was not there yet.
Any of you guys in the tire business in the sixties or seventies know what I am talking about. Tire quality was poor compared to now. Michelin was the cream of the crop unless you got a flat. Liner damage after they went flat made most of them unrepairable, even with good tread. Retread business was real good back then.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

but tires are also part of the look of your classic automobile. A modern blackwall tire (not cooper cobras or BFG Radials) with the best technology won't look right on an old muscle car.

So I prefer to choose a reproduction tire

 

[khryslerkid]

I like my Coopers so far. I knew better and didn't check the dates on them before buying. Later I discovered that they were already three years old.

 

[318willrun]

I've had a lot of Cooper Cobra's, always have liked them

 

[MoparLeo]

Again we were talking about age not brand.
A new tire of any brand will be a safe tire ( of course nothing man made will be perfect) from the standpoint of degradation. Tires are now a composition of hundreds of mostly synthetic chemicals in the mix. Like a cake is made of a certain mix of ingredients and then cooked to make it a cake instead of batter. So is a tire made and then Vulcanized to make it a cured tire not a mix of goo and other things. Tires have a date code for a very good reason. Almost anything including car parts have date codes as well. Reason ? Possible defect tracking if there is a trend of parts failures.,
You will have defenders of all brands of cars, tools, oil, gasoline, foods, and on and on. Everybody is correct in their brand loyalty from their point of view. We happen to be loyal Mopar fans. Some like Ford or Chevy or whatever.
There is obviously a market for reproduction parts and tires. We want a new, quality product now. A quality reproduction can sometimes be better quality than the original thing. Remember that these items were manufactured by the hundreds of thousands or more. Not for collectors but for the everyday consumer. Reproduction parts are generally a low production item so QC can be more easily maintained.
Lets face it, if they still made the original Goodyear or Firestone or BFG tires that were made back when the cars were new, a lot fewer people would be thinking about Cooper or any other brand of tires. And if the price of all those tires was a hundred bucks the choice would be even easier.
Here is a 5 minute video that shows how modern tires are made, naturally there are minor differences depending on the brand and type but gives a good illustration for some people out there. Enjoy:

 

[threewood]

I have Cobras on both my old rides. Dollar for dollar they are better than the BFGs. They wear nice, are quiet, hold up well from my use. But if you are putting out any appreciable horsepower you will melt them both down. I now mostly run Nitto 555 Rs on back and Coopers up front. I'm in AZ and rain is a rare occurrance so wet traction isn't a concern.