Don't swap in a modern engine or efi for driveability

[threewood]

A closed, pressurized fuel system is a damn good thing to have when all the local fuel is ethanol mixed and air temps are above 100 degrees most of the year.

 

[rolling_Thunder]

I agree to a point... A properly tuned crab and distributor set up is almost as reliable as an EFI system - but the real difference is emissions and mileage that can be tuned into an EFI system... there are legitimate shortcomings to a carburetor when it comes to adaptability due to the mechanical nature of the design - these are not present with EFI as it is all electronic controlled and can be tuned in a cell by cell basis taking many factors into account such as outside air temp, density, elevation, etc ---

I was avoiding EFI for a while but since decided to jump in with both feet and really have learned quite a bit in respect to fundamental tuning principals -- ended up using an MS3X and wiring up my Gen III Hemi from scratch and really have enjoyed the process.

 

[Purepony]

Both systems are good but I assure you had you completed that drive with a modern drivetrain in that car, od, efi, you would have had a much better drive.
The modern swaps bring a lot to the table.
Easy starts, better fuel economy (not huge but something) drive ability and easy access to parts (availability)

evolution never stops and that’s one reason why first Gen camaro owners are always seen as snobs because they’ll always complain about modifications. I just went to a show abd some clown “hated” resto mods because he said they’re pulling more money than his all stick just restored camaro 69. So I asked have you driven an ls swapped car? “Nope! Never would!” He said.


if you drive your car once a week a three speeds fine but if you driving the car long distance or daily driving It sucks! Every stupid car passes you down here in la county traffic. Every Uber driver leaves you eating dust! Believe me because that was me. 360 mopar with 904 abd 411 gears.

But first and foremost drive a vintage muscle car with a modern swap then make up your mind. I can’t stress this enough with people.

Eventually I’ll put a new hemi in my challenger (70) the satellite stays with the 383 looks good with a carb but you never know.

I have yet to meet one person who put a modern hemi or an ls in and regret it.

 

[Purepony]

I feel the computer , injection , controlled engines have left me in the dust.
A late model that will not fire or dies on the road. Well...... I need someone 30 years younger to tell me why it's dead ,outside of a battery ect.
My 67 , as long as a rod is not sticking out of the pan I can prob get it running.

You’d be suprised it’s not that hard.
I’ve had my ls swap in since about 2014 and the check engine light has only come on once for the knock sensors, I replaced them and no other issues since then, almost 7 years and just two knock sensors to me is not bad.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Many good points made in this thread, old school vs new. A conversation I had a few years back with the gentleman whose family owned the Plymouth dealership in State College in the 1960s summed it up for me. We were standing next to my two stock GTXs at a local show, and he was comparing the performance of his SRT8 Challenger to the older cars - "2 seconds faster in the quarter, starts perfectly under all conditions, twice the fuel efficiency, and ice cold A/C. His words: "The new car has higher performance levels, but it has no soul. The original '60s stuff did, and still does..."

 

[Cranky]

I almost 100% agree, you can't argue today's efficiency or reliability (in most cases) but I still prefer to work on mine with actual tools not computers. Where I disagree is driving in town with a Holley DP, mines technically not a Holley but same difference (Quickfuel) and it works seamlessly everywhere. Typically poor performance in town comes from having an oversized carb which many do.. bigger is better nah. This is what I'm getting 19mpg with too.

I said the DP's suck in town lol but I got 21 on the highway with 289 4 speed and 2.80 gears running a 600 DP on it. Was told it was too big but it ran a 15 flat at the track. Mileage in town was around 10....probably due to my 'brisk' starts and the car being a stick, the squirters were getting a good workout. My 383 Belvedere with a 750 DP got about that in town but it wasn't any better on the road since it was a brick and running 80 all the time

 

[1967coronet]

You’d be suprised it’s not that hard.
I’ve had my ls swap in since about 2014 and the check engine light has only come on once for the knock sensors, I replaced them and no other issues since then, almost 7 years and just two knock sensors to me is not bad.

I understand, it's like my job as a body man.
That field is much more easy now days , late model cars are like legos , that plus so much of it is modular.
I like my wifes late model Impala. heck my pickup has a 5.3 lol.
All the new drive train designs are for the most part trouble free as long as they have basic maintenance. I just enjoy the hrs spent working on my 67 or similar cars with the pre computer drive trains.
But like I say I do understand the allure of a late model hemi in a old mopar and some kid with a lap top asking how much do you want to bump it up.

 

[Challenger340]

2 cents....
I'm with the OP here.... or I guess I must just be really lucky ?
because my survivor original UN-restored Charger R/T SE with it's UN-rebuilt original 440 Magnum/single point ignition.... just runs beautifully ?

NEVER gives me a problem....never has either...
Always starts 1/2 Crank once warm, even after sitting a few hours....
Idles beautifully even in bumper to bumper 95* traffic...
and
the damn thing is surprisingly quick with the auto.... can boil the hides off the line and squacks rubber into 2nd shifting all by itself left in "D" ?

I mean I just dunno what to say here ?
I got a NEW LS Engined Truck
I got a NEW Turbo'd Jeep
and I've rode in PLENTY of friends/Buddies new HEMI cars.... and them having reciprocated in the old R/T ?
Different 'genres' of automobiles no question ?

But just say'in...
IMO.... and my Buddies/Friends spoken opinions as well.....there really is absolutely NO "operational" reason to transplant from a well running/built 440 Magnum ?
WHY ?
Go BUY a new HEMI car complete with stand up shower option if THAT is what you want ?

 

[Purepony]

T

2 cents....
I'm with the OP here.... or I guess I must just be really lucky ?
because my survivor original UN-restored Charger R/T SE with it's UN-rebuilt original 440 Magnum/single point ignition.... just runs beautifully ?
View attachment 1140484

NEVER gives me a problem....never has either...
Always starts 1/2 Crank once warm, even after sitting a few hours....
Idles beautifully even in bumper to bumper 95* traffic...
and
the damn thing is surprisingly quick with the auto.... can boil the hides off the line and squacks rubber into 2nd shifting all by itself left in "D" ?

I mean I just dunno what to say here ?
I got a NEW LS Engined Truck
I got a NEW Turbo'd Jeep
and I've rode in PLENTY of friends/Buddies new HEMI cars.... and them having reciprocated in the old R/T ?
Different 'genres' of automobiles no question ?

But just say'in...
IMO.... and my Buddies/Friends spoken opinions as well.....there really is absolutely NO "operational" reason to transplant from a well running/built 440 Magnum ?
WHY ?
Go BUY a new HEMI car complete with stand up shower option if THAT is what you want ?

thats not the point ! Just because your happy doesn’t mean that should be the solution for everyone.
I for example don’t like new car body styles! I love the power trains but I don’t like the body designs that’s my reason to transplant.
Old car styling with new style drive ability.

I really think you should drive one and let us know what you really think then.

You’ll be suprised

cool car by the way

 

[Michael_]

Of course the new engines / efi get better fuel economy, i don't doubt that.
But that's not really a selling point for me. (It was if it would not add complexity / computers of course...)

I assure you had you completed that drive with a modern drivetrain in that car, od, efi, you would have had a much better drive.

I don't really see that.

I mean the new 8 speed autos or 6 speed manuals are great, but i dont really need this for going 80 mph with a suitable rear gear ratio.
Different story when we are talking 180 mph...

if you drive your car once a week a three speeds fine but if you driving the car long distance or daily driving It sucks! Every stupid car passes you down here in la county traffic. Every Uber driver leaves you eating dust!

Actually most of the time i was the fastest car in the left lane passing all the boring modern cars by going just 100 mph...
Of course many new cars would be able to outperform me, but for some reason most people drive annoyingly slow

-----

Another thing i did not mention in the first post is that from time to time i see people saying the modern cars are more comfortable than the old ones.
I could not disagree more. I bet my 72 cutlass is way more comfortable than a new rolls royce!
At least an old imperial, cadillac or lincoln is for sure!

 

[Purepony]

Of course the new engines / efi get better fuel economy, i don't doubt that.
But that's not really a selling point for me. (It was if it would not add complexity / computers of course...)



I don't really see that.

I mean the new 8 speed autos or 6 speed manuals are great, but i dont really need this for going 80 mph with a suitable rear gear ratio.
Different story when we are talking 180 mph...



Actually most of the time i was the fastest car in the left lane passing all the boring modern cars by going just 100 mph...
Of course many new cars would be able to outperform me, but for some reason most people drive annoyingly slow

-----

Another thing i did not mention in the first post is that from time to time i see people saying the modern cars are more comfortable than the old ones.
I could not disagree more. I bet my 72 cutlass is way more comfortable than a new rolls royce!
At least an old imperial, cadillac or lincoln is for sure!

There’s a lot of different reasons. Interior wise I do like reclining seats on a long drive but I don’t care for ac so I’m peculiar about some things I guess.

I agree with your combo it sounds like you have a good gear ratio most don’t though believe me Ill drive by a few muscle cars on the freeway once in a while and they’re at about 55-65 max and I blow past going 75-85 and they don’t even try to catch up, sometimes we’ll run into each other at a car show and they’ll ask how I flew by. I just say it’s a t-56 6 six speed

 

[Cranky]

There’s a lot of different reasons. Interior wise I do like reclining seats on a long drive but I don’t care for ac so I’m peculiar about some things I guess.

I agree with your combo it sounds like you have a good gear ratio most don’t though believe me Ill drive by a few muscle cars on the freeway once in a while and they’re at about 55-65 max and I blow past going 75-85 and they don’t even try to catch up, sometimes we’ll run into each other at a car show and they’ll ask how I flew by. I just say it’s a t-56 6 six speed

I'm at a cross road right now with the T-56 Magnum vs a Gear Vendors unit on an 833. The GV is 3 grand! I already have an 833 but it looks like it came out of a creek bed but the insides look nice. Still plan on rebuilding it if I'm going to use it but.....I know there's going to me floor clearance issues with the 56. Gotta win the lottery. Dangit

 

[Purepony]

I'm at a cross road right now with the T-56 Magnum vs a Gear Vendors unit on an 833. The GV is 3 grand! I already have an 833 but it looks like it came out of a creek bed but the insides look nice. Still plan on rebuilding it if I'm going to use it but.....I know there's going to me floor clearance issues with the 56. Gotta win the lottery. Dangit

I have the t56 on a 69 camaro and it’s been great. It really was a direct bolt in swap, no surprises.

I have the a833 with od 4 speed on the challenger and i actually like the a833 more with the mechanical clutch. It might be the feel but I prefer the a833 at least in the dodge

 

[HawkRod]

I'm at a cross road right now with the T-56 Magnum vs a Gear Vendors unit on an 833. The GV is 3 grand! I already have an 833 but it looks like it came out of a creek bed but the insides look nice. Still plan on rebuilding it if I'm going to use it but.....I know there's going to me floor clearance issues with the 56. Gotta win the lottery. Dangit

I used a 833 converted to a 3 speed with OD when I did my trip across country. I worked fine. There are also Hemi style ODs built that can handle lots of horsepower and have better gearing than mine did. People who have used them love them. The nice thing is that the 833 based OD fits in with no modifications to the car at all, so in the long run it is really a pretty cheap way to get OD.

 

[F4R/T]

Just wait till all the swapped cars have to meet emissions standards for the year engine they installed then have to put cats on and fuel systems that are sealed and purge tested. The EPA is working on it ..

 

[Purepony]

Just wait till all the swapped cars have to meet emissions standards for the year engine they installed then have to put cats on and fuel systems that are sealed and purge tested. The EPA is working on it ..

ThTs okay I’m sure someone will come up with cat that will fit these cars and work

something will come up

 

[Don Frelier]

There is a big difference between a stock 350 olds running a carb and an engine running a large cam with a narrow lobe separation angle.
A big advantage to EFI is it really cuts down on engine wear.
A choke on a carb is a compromise. And people throwing too many pump shots in a cold engine is a recipe for wear.
In the 70s and 80s most cars never saw 150k. Now they go 250-300 with ease.
EFI is the big reason for that

 

[Cranky]

Just wait till all the swapped cars have to meet emissions standards for the year engine they installed then have to put cats on and fuel systems that are sealed and purge tested. The EPA is working on it ..

Texas has been requiring that for years but the inspectors don't really adhere to it.

There is a big difference between a stock 350 olds running a carb and an engine running a large cam with a narrow lobe separation angle.
A big advantage to EFI is it really cuts down on engine wear.
A choke on a carb is a compromise. And people throwing too many pump shots in a cold engine is a recipe for wear.
In the 70s and 80s most cars never saw 150k. Now they go 250-300 with ease.
EFI is the big reason for that

My cars didn't go too far just because of the way I drove them lol. I think the only reason why my 95 Dakota is still running is because of the EFI etc but, it's just a V6 so how much wear and tear can you do to one of those. Yeah, you got to keep up with a carb but there's times when the 95 messed up and went into the 'limp home' mode and well, it put out a good deal of raw fuel too so they both have their issues. Ended up getting a new computer under warranty but it was one of those 'it ran bad until going to the dealer' then ran good deals. Over a period of two weeks, it went into the limp home mode about 6 times and it finally did it at the dealership one day after a couple of test drives. It ran fine for the 45 mile trip to the dealership though and ran good for the initial scan and it finally went into the limp mode again after a test drive while there with the scan tool on it. They determined the computer was bad and it's been running fine ever since and that was back in about 98. It still runs good but it only has 104k miles on it. I don't see any oil smoke but it leaks. Btw, it has a straight pipe so if the engine was smoking I'd see it since the converter isn't on it....

 

[Cranky]

I have the t56 on a 69 camaro and it’s been great. It really was a direct bolt in swap, no surprises.
I have the a833 with od 4 speed on the challenger and i actually like the a833 more with the mechanical clutch. It might be the feel but I prefer the a833 at least in the dodge

I like having a close ratio 4 gear.....with an OD. I think Passon makes one? I hear the wait time is long. A 3 speed with OD doesn't do it for me....and yes, I've driven them. Do you have the Passon 4 speed + OD?

 

[Challenger340]

T

thats not the point ! Just because your happy doesn’t mean that should be the solution for everyone.
I for example don’t like new car body styles! I love the power trains but I don’t like the body designs that’s my reason to transplant.
Old car styling with new style drive ability.

I really think you should drive one and let us know what you really think then.

You’ll be suprised

cool car by the way

Thx
please re-read my post maybe ?
because maybe it wasn't clear in my post.... I HAVE ridden in and DRIVEN plenty of the new stuff ?
and that was my point....so have my friends that own the new stuff have ridden in my old R/T ?
and we pretty much all agree ?
you are not 'gaining' anything in 'new style drivability' transplanting a new Engine into a 50 year old car/suspension and support systems ?
Different Cars... Different Genres....
the old stuff done/maintained well is plenty capable of not just a very satisfying ride.,... but also extremely good reliability ?