electrical issues, dimming lights, occasional stalling, rough idle at stop

[Evan Frucht]

Brand new cable made. Let's see what it does

 

[Evan Frucht]

Well it brought the voltage drop from 0.9 down to 0.2. Didnt seem to make a change in my bad idle in drive and the ammeter is still acting sporadic, especially at low rpms

 

[Moparnocar]

Well it brought the voltage drop from 0.9 down to 0.2. Didnt seem to make a change in my bad idle in drive and the ammeter is still acting sporadic, especially at low rpms

Try the headlights?

 

[Evan Frucht]

I've been thinking more about it and one issue that I cant seem to get over is the fluctuating ammeter. Every power wire I've checked so far while car is running shows a pretty steady 14.5 volts but the volt meter will make random movements and wobbles fast or will tick quickly to the D side for a second. This will happen with or without the actual headlights on, but if I do put the headlights on the dash lights noticably flicker...

This is all while the car is not in gear since I'm by myself. The stumbling and dying problems all happen while I'm idling in gear though.

But no matter what RPM I'm at the ammeter still acts funny and the lights flicker/pulse in brightness.

Could this be that the alternator is just not putting out steady amps ?

^ (The only reason I can think of to be skeptical of that idea is that I'm getting a good steady voltage everywhere while running)

 

[miller]

But no matter what RPM I'm at the ammeter still acts funny and the lights flicker/pulse in brightness.

You say you did a temp by-pass at the ammeter. Guessing it's wired back up. That's why I asked about the connections being tight...and not touching ground anywhere.

If you look at the wiring diagrams, red wire from firewall to the ammeter. Black wire from the ammeter, goes to a point in the harness, and 3-4 other wires feed from it. You can trace each of those wires, seeing where they go. Those wires are soldered together, and that joint can be corroded. One supplies power to the ignition switch. Switch good, or not so good?

Simple test on any length of wire, besides ohms, is see how easy it will flex. If it feels stiff, there's a chance the wire is corroded. Corroded wire will not let current flow as it should.

It's not all of it, but on your headlights...are the bulb connectors clean, and good shape? How about the ground wire, at the radiator support, for the headlights?

'Somewhere' your getting drag on the power feed, to 'everything' under the hood. Keep in mind, the power feed moves through the firewall (block), to under the dash, then back out to the various places under the hood.
Wild guess, all your electrical problems, are bad connections.

 

[Moparnocar]

I've been assuming you drop tested grounds too? Alt to ground? Battery to engine and ground cable in the rear of the engine?

 

[Evan Frucht]

I've been assuming you drop tested grounds too? Alt to ground? Battery to engine and ground cable in the rear of the engine?

I dont think mine has a ground cable at back of engine but my battery is grounded to both the engine block and body and it seems that there is no voltage drop on the ground side there.

 

[Evan Frucht]

You say you did a temp by-pass at the ammeter. Guessing it's wired back up. That's why I asked about the connections being tight...and not touching ground anywhere.

If you look at the wiring diagrams, red wire from firewall to the ammeter. Black wire from the ammeter, goes to a point in the harness, and 3-4 other wires feed from it. You can trace each of those wires, seeing where they go. Those wires are soldered together, and that joint can be corroded. One supplies power to the ignition switch. Switch good, or not so good?

Simple test on any length of wire, besides ohms, is see how easy it will flex. If it feels stiff, there's a chance the wire is corroded. Corroded wire will not let current flow as it should.

It's not all of it, but on your headlights...are the bulb connectors clean, and good shape? How about the ground wire, at the radiator support, for the headlights?

'Somewhere' your getting drag on the power feed, to 'everything' under the hood. Keep in mind, the power feed moves through the firewall (block), to under the dash, then back out to the various places under the hood.
Wild guess, all your electrical problems, are bad connections.

The ammeter connections are tight, bypassing it didnt change anything so I hooked it back up. I'm getting no significant voltage drop between both ammeter posts. And also both posts read the same ~14.5v. Bulkhead has been completely "fixed" with new connectors.

A few months ago I was having a lot of problems that were obviously electrical (lights, horn, signals didnt work properly.) I fixed all of that. I have replaced a lot of the wiring and gone through both engine and dash harness... removed from car and replaced sections or wire and connections on a work bench. Opened up the under dash wire harness sleeve to look at each individual wire and made fixes as needed. It wasn't in terrible shape, had been messed with a little by PO, so I removed all the funny business and made it to original specs. I cleaned it up a lot. So basically my wiring has been greatly improved but I'm sure some of the wires are a little stiff still considering the age of the wiring, but I'm hoping that is not causing all my problems becuase the only option then would be a new harness altogether which is expensive.

The only harness I have NOT gone through enough yet is the headlight wiring. I know that my actual seeled beam headlight bulbs havent been replaced in years too. That could be it part of it maybe ?

I just want to not have to worry about the car dying on me becuase of this.

I happen to have a brand new ignition switch on hand I could try out. The car always starts right up though.

I noticed the wire splice you are talking about in my wiring diagram. I cant remember exactly but I may have redid that splice completely. Its definately good tho since I inspected everything when the harness was off and if it was questionable I would have fixed it.

What could cause steady voltage readings while at same time bad or unsteady amperage output?

I'm thinking my alternator is failing but my voltage regular is working ?

 

[matthon]

I'm a little confused on what you did with the charge wire, why did you take the red wire out of commission?

Alternator charge wire, black, goes into the cabin, feeds power to multiple things, then to the ammeter. Red out from other side of ammeter back out to starter solenoid.

When I ran the charge wire direct to the starter relay, I wanted to eliminate the ammeter. I still needed power to go into the cabin.
So, taking the red wire from the starter relay and plugging it into the bulkhead where the black alternator charge wire was, gave me power to the cabin.

I would change that dimmer. I'm not one to throw parts at stuff, but it's inexpensive and that issue with the high beams sounds familiar.

Just an fyi, in my vibration issue thread, I failed to find my issues over and over.
Keep at it.

 

[Evan Frucht]

Alternator charge wire, black, goes into the cabin, feeds power to multiple things, then to the ammeter. Red out from other side of ammeter back out to starter solenoid.

When I ran the charge wire direct to the starter relay, I wanted to eliminate the ammeter. I still needed power to go into the cabin.
So, taking the red wire from the starter relay and plugging it into the bulkhead where the black alternator charge wire was, gave me power to the cabin.

I would change that dimmer. I'm not one to throw parts at stuff, but it's inexpensive and that issue with the high beams sounds familiar.

Just an fyi, in my vibration issue thread, I failed to find my issues over and over.
Keep at it.

Thank you. I'm not really trying to bypass my ammeter. I'd like it to just work correctly.

I should try another high beam switch.

 

[matthon]

I hear you, however the original charge wire is tiny, especially if you up the alternator, and it has no business going into the cabin, and then out again to get to it's destination. Poor design.
Just my opinion, which I inherited from this site.

Get that napa flasher too, just to have directionals that actually flash with meaning. You'll know what I mean when you plug it in, well worth the $13 or so bucks.

 

[Don Frelier]

Yes, but the car was probably designed to last maybe 20 years. It's now 55 years old. I like having a functional ammeter, I watch it all the time in both my cars. Let's not be too critical here. These vehicles were designed to be cost effective and practical, not a rolls Royce.

 

[bearman]

Well the local alternator guy may have made the problem worse. He didnt have one of the old type of brushes that my alternator used so he modified another one. I saw him do this and thought he knew what he was doing...

Just installed the alternator eith the new modified brushes he installed and now the problem is much worse and it leads me to believe this whole problem is in fact related to the alternator or some kind of charging system failure. The amp gauge is more sporadic with random jumping and now the car will just immediately start to shudder and stall out when I put it into gear.

I'm gonna continue to check wiring but I'm thinking of just getting a rebuilt alternator from napa and seeing what that does, if it doesnt do anything I can always return it... I really wanted to be happy with this local alternator guy but now I'm not sure.

You have a stator getting hot and causing a short in the alt. Start the engine then take the main feed wire off the alt and cover it up so it doesn't hit anything then go drive it and see if the problem is gone.

 

[miller]

I'm thinking my alternator is failing but my voltage regular is working ?

Alternator...voltage regulator...you will not know, until each are tested. IF they test good, the problem is somewhere else...

And, how are they 'connected'...wires. Unless ALL the wiring in that charging circuit, is in good shape, it can't do what it's supposed to do.
Again, I'm no dang expert on anything electrical...but, I know basics, on how things work. Your service manual can tell you how things work, and how to test 'em.

First, that 65 amp alternator should be plenty for your 64. Yes (just wiring basics) you should have the engine to body ground strap in place, with good connection. Should be a self-tapped bolt hole on the firewall, under the voltage regulator. Ground strap from there, to the backside of the passenger side head.

Even if the car 'starts' right up, does NOT mean your ignition switch is ALL good. The start 'circuit', that goes through that switch, is completely separate from the other circuits that go through that switch.
The ignition switch would need to be completely tested, for each circuit, before calling the switch good. Yep, the headlight hi/lo switch can be checked, too. Simply with an ohmmeter...ohms reads 'resistance' in the wire...more resistance, the wire will not carry the load it should.

That charging circuit, not working right, is your main problem. You want to find out why. It all needs to be checked, down to every inch of wire.
50+ year old parts, remember? They can only last so long, then they need help.

Pretty sure your problems are not, just at one point. At least a few.

 

[Evan Frucht]

Alternator...voltage regulator...you will not know, until each are tested. IF they test good, the problem is somewhere else...

And, how are they 'connected'...wires. Unless ALL the wiring in that charging circuit, is in good shape, it can't do what it's supposed to do.
Again, I'm no dang expert on anything electrical...but, I know basics, on how things work. Your service manual can tell you how things work, and how to test 'em.

First, that 65 amp alternator should be plenty for your 64. Yes (just wiring basics) you should have the engine to body ground strap in place, with good connection. Should be a self-tapped bolt hole on the firewall, under the voltage regulator. Ground strap from there, to the backside of the passenger side head.

Even if the car 'starts' right up, does NOT mean your ignition switch is ALL good. The start 'circuit', that goes through that switch, is completely separate from the other circuits that go through that switch.
The ignition switch would need to be completely tested, for each circuit, before calling the switch good. Yep, the headlight hi/lo switch can be checked, too. Simply with an ohmmeter...ohms reads 'resistance' in the wire...more resistance, the wire will not carry the load it should.

That charging circuit, not working right, is your main problem. You want to find out why. It all needs to be checked, down to every inch of wire.
50+ year old parts, remember? They can only last so long, then they need help.

Pretty sure your problems are not, just at one point. At least a few.

For some reason my engine to firewall ground strap is missing. I have a good solid ground that goes from battery 》inner fender 》front of engine block so I'm thinking that is probabaly not cause this. But I will get a ground strap on there anyway.

Ya I dont know what it is. The car is definitely charging to some extent but it's just acting funny at the ammeter and still wants to die out when I put into gear. The idle slows down too much in gear.... BUT when it's idling in NEUTRAL it runs good.

At this point the bad idle and stalling is my main issue. I'm trying to tackle one thing at a time.

Could headlight wiring problems or problems with my igntion switch be causing that issue? If not I can deal with those later. My main issue is this stalling and bad idle. The charging system wiring is not that many connections and I've almost ruled all of them out as far as I can tell...

 

[Evan Frucht]

Tried a new ignition switch and it did nothing.

One symptom I've identified is that when the key is in the ignition, after a few seconds the ammeter starts to tick back and forward on the "D" side. Its does maybe 1 tic per second and will make and audible but faint "DOINK" sound. Then, when it's running it will do same ticking thing but over on the "C" side. It's an identical kind of movement. It will do this regardless lights on OR off but when lights on the lights flicker in time with this "ticking"

 

[Evan Frucht]

Also sometimes when I'm revving it up the ammeter will go almost all the way to the "C" for a second then fall back down

 

[miller]

Could headlight wiring problems or problems with my igntion switch be causing that issue?

If you follow the wiring diagrams, headlights and ignition switch, the answer is yes. A good chance it's in the wiring itself. 'Power' goes to both the ignition switch AND the headlight switch. If there's resistance in the wires...guess what!

My main issue is this stalling and bad idle.

That can be related to wiring. Too much resistance, low power feed, poor performance. Have you tried changing the ballast resistor, on the firewall? It's part of the ignition system.

The car is definitely charging to some extent but it's just acting funny at the ammeter

I broke down, and looked in the book. Trouble-shooting the ammeter, the only thing said is 'high resistance in the field circuit, or voltage regulator not adjusted right.
The ammeter is only going to read, what the system says. I'll add except, if there's problems like a shorted wire, or the like.

I'll toss this in...I have never done a 'voltage drop' test. Never have needed to. Ohms reading each wire, various contacts in various switches, tells me if there's resistance in the system. All I need to know.

Not sure what else to tell ya.

Maybe do a search on the 'noises' the ammeter is doing. Something positively not right. It could also lead to a wiring fire, if you don't find it.

Take care!

 

[miller]

It's TOO easy to do an ohms test on wiring. From end to end. On the meter, set ohms to 0 -100, and test the wire.
On mine, I gave a limit of 0.5...maximum...if more than that, I replaced the wire.

 

[Evan Frucht]

Ok I identified another voltage drop that isn

It's TOO easy to do an ohms test on wiring. From end to end. On the meter, set ohms to 0 -100, and test the wire.
On mine, I gave a limit of 0.5...maximum...if more than that, I replaced the wire.

New ignition switch did not fix it. A voltage drop test is a very similar test to a resistance test. Bas9ically instead of measuring resistance when the wire has no current passing through it. You measure the difference in voltage between two points on the same side of a circuit while the system is under load (such as car running or a switch on.)The reason I was told to so a voltage drop instead of a ohms test is that supposedly wiring can sometimes pass an ohms test but then fail a voltage drop test. So a voltage drop test is actually better at showing you if voltage is getting "stuck" anywhere in the wiring or electrical system.

I'm at my witts end here. I'm gonna try a new alternator and see what that does.

Do these ammeters go bad? I'm pretty sure the ammeter is a very simple mechanical coil or metal loop that just physically moves a needle. I dont think they go bad unless they get shorted out. My ammeter returns to middle of gauge when the car is off which is what it's supposed to do