Fender tag fun.

[70chall440]

So you add options to a car then have a tag made to claim it came on the car? I have a big problem with that. If the tag is gone then the tag is gone. You shouldnt have bought a car without a tag if it is important enough to go have a fake made.
There are some cars that truly came loaded with options and are special. The original VIN tag, fender tag and build sheet are crucial to the documentation. Falsifying those documents should be a crime.

If you want to make a tag with some funny saying to get a laugh i see no problem. Putting any kind of factory codes on it should not be allowed.

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its a duck...

 

[70chall440]

This is an issue that will always be contentious with people on both sides. As to buying a "fake", the term "buyer beware" comes to mind and if you are "investing" in a high dollar car, then you should do your due diligence to determine it is what you are willing to pay. This is all about money and the reason that a parts car now is worth $10K.

 

[70chall440]

Ever notice that the whole FT thing is a much bigger issue with B and E body guys... I am sure there are some A and C body guys/gals who are concerned about it but doesn't seem near as much of an issue there (except with the very unique and rare variants).

 

[kiwigtx]

I wasn't going to go there, but these threads keep popping up here. Getting a bit thin now.

Remember the ***-clown who perpetuated the lie a couple of years ago...made his own fender tag & VIN, then managed to convince the powers that be at FCI.....to validate the lie. Placing another tag below to try and justify the effort as a Proof body or Mule...or whatever, doesn't cut the mustard, especially when you have a living breathing actual looking car that was allegedly built and subsequently canned.
I think it was a happy coincidence that the first two digits of the VIN came up as BS....

OMG...it's got paint on it....

All that aside with the obviously controversial and extremely fake fender tag and VIN, it was a top notch 'build' of a Hot Rod, which bore a passing resemblance to the iconic cars actually built by Chrysler of the old days.

 

[PP1RT]

if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, its a duck...

Then have i got a deal for you. Let me go add a RR fender tag to my SS and raise the price for you.
Ok, let's say you are in the market for a 68 Charger R/T. They came standard with a few upgrades from the base model. There were options that make some more desirable than others.

If you have a car that originally came with a Dana rear and a 4 spd it is worth a little more. So if i add that to a car that didnt have it originally and pop a fake fender tag that is ok?

Can i take a triple green R/T and change it to triple black and pop a fake tag and that is ok?

Can i add options like cruise control, power windows, AC, rear defrost, rear speaker, etc and pop a fake tag and that is ok?

If you think any of the above is ok to do and turn around and sell the car as such i have to question all your morals. You are the kind of person that is a detriment to the hobby if it is.

Bruce Jenner can spend all the money in the world to become a woman but in the end he is still just a man pretending to be something he never was.

 

[kiwigtx]

Bruce Jenner can spend all the money in the world to become a woman but in the end he is still just a man pretending to be something he never was.

Great analogy...thanks.

 

[moparedtn]

Okay fellas, I hope anyone reading this would do their due diligence and at least go to the Chrysler heritage site and get the IBM card /build info before they bought a classic Mopar.

1967-back only. Not possible for '68 and up if I recall correctly.
There was a fire....

Lookit, my GTX has the fender tag and build sheet and all that jazz intact and I have made no effort to remove or alter the original fender tag VIN from the car DESPITE the fact it now isn't anything like it was built to be.
(Original 440 long gone; car was a bench seat automatic originally, now a bucket seat 4 speed. Color: wrong. Wheels: wrong. Rear gears: wrong.)

Anyone who walks up to the car at a show and knows what they're looking at on the tag can see what has been done to it from stock - and that often leads to friendly conversations and questions.
They're friendly because they can see I'm not trying to fake anything.
They're conversations because they can see I'm not even attempting to be dishonest, which leads to story telling about the cars' history and such - as opposed to them doing what others have already said here, namely, walking away without a word, muttering under their breath about what a fraud it is (and I am) and shooting me dirty looks over their shoulder as they climb back into the family Caravan.

Some try to blow off "badge engineering" as not being serious and try to instead throw shadows on those who object to it.
Bottom line: you're an honest person or you're not - and it's not somebody else's fault if you aren't.
Talk about BS...

 

[Kern Dog]

The problem is for every one "honest" person there are X number dishonest people......

I get your idea though.....

I'm right there with you on this.
My tag is gone...I don't recall if I lost it or never had it. My Charger is a 500 model but over the years I have it dressed like an R/T. If I were to have a tag made, I'd have an "E93" for an engine code to denote the 493 cubic inches, "S27" for HD suspension, some other BS number for the 4 wheel disc brakes, the upgraded seats, etc.

 

[moparnation74]

Okay fellas, I hope anyone reading this would do their due diligence and at least go to the Chrysler heritage site and get the IBM card /build info before they bought a classic Mopar. You cannot help if someone changes the VIN number on a car, if that happens unless you know where all the hidden partial Vin codes are you're kind of screwed.
We are blessed being Mopar owners because equipment verification is much easier than most other car makes. If we were having this discussion about a 69 Camaro I would be pissed off at people changing the cowl tag because that's absolutely the only way you can tell what the car was when it left the factory floor unless you have the protecto plate.( and fellows build sheets don't mean **** because they're way too easy to reproduce)
Let's face it if you're knowledgeable enough to understand what the codes mean on the fender tag you should have the knowledge to at least read the VIN and get some information from it.

I think we're all being a little weird about the fender tag issue. The bottom line is no one is going to fall for a doctored Fender tag when they shell out big bucks for a car. And if you are naive enough to fall for that well you know what P T Barnum said.

IBM card...lol.....and go to the CHS

For being a newbie here and your obvious limited knowledge. It would be in your best interest to talk to the experts and learn something "correct" about the historical nature and relevance of Mopars....Versus placing a "stigma" on them because you feel jaded.......your little dream tag cannot get made...boo hooo....

 

[70chall440]

Then have i got a deal for you. Let me go add a RR fender tag to my SS and raise the price for you. Unfortunately the VIN still says SS, not RR. However if you added all or a number of the options that a SS was offered with and stamped a tag that listed them, then the car would be worth what the market would bear for a SS which might be even more than a RR.
Ok, let's say you are in the market for a 68 Charger R/T. They came standard with a few upgrades from the base model. There were options that make some more desirable than others.

If you have a car that originally came with a Dana rear and a 4 spd it is worth a little more. So if i add that to a car that didnt have it originally and pop a fake fender tag that is ok? Yep

Can i take a triple green R/T and change it to triple black and pop a fake tag and that is ok? Yep

Can i add options like cruise control, power windows, AC, rear defrost, rear speaker, etc and pop a fake tag and that is ok? Absolutely

If you think any of the above is ok to do and turn around and sell the car as such i have to question all your morals. You are the kind of person that is a detriment to the hobby if it is. You seem to forget that humans built these on an assembly line, ergo another human can build one in his garage. If the tag says 6 way seats and there are 6 way seats in the vehicle, whats the issue? Because some person didn't bolt them in at the factory makes the car worth less than one that was? These are just cars..

Bruce Jenner can spend all the money in the world to become a woman but in the end he is still just a man pretending to be something he never was.

Perhaps but I bet you love looking at those optional silicone implants, oh wait they weren't put on by the factory so perhaps not...

You can question whatever you like, but at the end of the day if you are buying a car solely based on what the FT says then you have issues. Virtually every option has accompanying aspects that indicates whether it is supposed to be there or not despite what the FT says. Almost everything is online these days not to mention these forums, so if you are looking at a car and want to verify the options, it isn't all that hard to do.

Based on this logic, if someone has a 68 Charger R/T (complete with the options/items provided by the R/T) that doesn't have a FT, it is worth less than one with the FT even if they are identically optioned? So is it 5% less, 10% or ?? less. Say you had this car and a FT was $75, you wouldn't spend that to get that % back? But wait, since you didn't have a FT, how can you be sure it had all the options you see on it when it left the plant, so you would be content to take the less money for it just because of a missing metal plate.

Obviously we have out positions and neither are going to change them so I'd say this is done.

 

[70chall440]

Just to be crystal clear, I am not advocating a fake VIN tag, completely a different subject. This is all about the FT and factory available options; which just for the record could be in many cases added by a dealer, just saying.

 

[kiwigtx]

Based on this logic, if someone has a 68 Charger R/T (complete with the options/items provided by the R/T) that doesn't have a FT, it is worth less than one with the FT even if they are identically optioned?

Based on that logic....the car with the FT is obviously worth more, because it's pedigree can be proven...vs a car with stuff added on and represented as factory optioned.

 

[beanhead]

 

[Maddogmike1001]

IBM card...lol.....and go to the CHS

For being a newbie here and your obvious limited knowledge. It would be in your best interest to talk to the experts and learn something "correct" about the historical nature and relevance of Mopars....Versus placing a "stigma" on them because you feel jaded.......your little dream tag cannot get made...boo hooo....

Do you own a 1989 Dodge caravan?I think I might have seen you at a car show

 

[MarPar]

I wasn't going to go there, but these threads keep popping up here. Getting a bit thin now.

Remember the ***-clown who who perpetuated the lie a couple of years ago...made his own fender tag & VIN, then managed to convince the powers that be at FCI.....to validate the lie. Placing another tag below to try and justify the effort as a Proof body or Mule...or whatever, doesn't cut the mustard, especially when you have a living breathing actual looking car that was allegedly built and subsequently canned.
I think it was a happy coincidence that the first two digits of the VIN came up as BS....

View attachment 683120

View attachment 683123

OMG...it's got paint on it....
View attachment 683124

View attachment 683122

All that aside with the obviously controversial and extremely fake fender tag and VIN, it was a top notch 'build' of a Hot Rod, which bore a passing resemblance to the iconic cars actually built by Chrysler of the old days.

 

[PP1RT]

Perhaps but I bet you love looking at those optional silicone implants, oh wait they weren't put on by the factory so perhaps not...

You can question whatever you like, but at the end of the day if you are buying a car solely based on what the FT says then you have issues. Virtually every option has accompanying aspects that indicates whether it is supposed to be there or not despite what the FT says. Almost everything is online these days not to mention these forums, so if you are looking at a car and want to verify the options, it isn't all that hard to do.

Based on this logic, if someone has a 68 Charger R/T (complete with the options/items provided by the R/T) that doesn't have a FT, it is worth less than one with the FT even if they are identically optioned? So is it 5% less, 10% or ?? less. Say you had this car and a FT was $75, you wouldn't spend that to get that % back? But wait, since you didn't have a FT, how can you be sure it had all the options you see on it when it left the plant, so you would be content to take the less money for it just because of a missing metal plate.

Obviously we have out positions and neither are going to change them so I'd say this is done.

You are gonna spend $75 for false documents. That is fraud in my book.
A car with the original fender tag and build sheet is worth more than one without. A repopped tag is equal or less value than a car without. If i knew you were selling a car with a repop tag i would be telling everyone i could.

And yes, i have a 68 Charger R/T loaded with several extra options special ordered and have the original FT and build sheet. That is called provenance and will bring a premium over another with similar options and no documentation to prove it if you could find another like it.

Invest wisely.

 

[moparnation74]

Do you own a 1989 Dodge caravan?I think I might have seen you at a car show

View attachment 683213

Thanks for proving not only you have limited knowledge but you also have little to none "grey" matter......

 

[moparnation74]

You are gonna spend $75 for false documents. That is fraud in my book.
A car with the original fender tag and build sheet is worth more than one without. A repopped tag is equal or less value than a car without. If i knew you were selling a car with a repop tag i would be telling everyone i could.

And yes, i have a 68 Charger R/T loaded with several extra options special ordered and have the original FT and build sheet. That is called provenance and will bring a premium over another with similar options and no documentation to prove it if you could find another like it.

Invest wisely.

Thats it...HONESTY......Just how many people fess up they have a reproduction FT? Not many and when they do than people either walk away or get very picky and offer less.....

BS at certain plants were never put into cars mainly Lynch Road. So when you factor that into the mix depending on the plant you will have a BS and FT or just a FT.

When it comes to value. I completely agree with you. The right documentation needs to be there and if not than I am not interested. For the buyers out there that are still interested in a car missing a FT they will want to pay less.....It is a known fact....

 

[coronet68mx]

Just for giggles and grins. I love to see the expressions as people read this. LOL.

View attachment 682743

where I can buy one like this ?

 

[Maddogmike1001]

Okay for the last time if you are looking to spend real money on one of these cars and the only resource you use is the cars Fender tag ... you are a dumbass... There's no way to get around it. The bottom line is most people that get ripped off when they buy one of these cars did not do the research or we're so bent on buying the thing they didn't think ahead.