Fender tag fun.

[Maddogmike1001]

Thanks for proving not only you have limited knowledge but you also have little to none "grey" matter......

I'm glad I have" NONE " grey matter.....

 

[moparnation74]

I'm glad I have" NONE " grey matter.....

Your post #41 CLEARLY proved that.....

Maybe your too sloshed on:

 

[PP1RT]

Okay for the last time if you are looking to spend real money on one of these cars and the only resource you use is the cars Fender tag ... you are a dumbass... There's no way to get around it. The bottom line is most people that get ripped off when they buy one of these cars did not do the research or we're so bent on buying the thing they didn't think ahead.

You have a VIN tag and a fender tag on every vehicle. Some but not all had a build sheet tossed in. To say the fender tag is not important on a Mopar is ignorant. To buy a car without a fender tag and then have a fake tag made is fraudulent. Your reference to the IBM card is irrelevant to 68 and newer. There are only those three and when you have all 3 and the car is one of the more sought after models it will and always has commanded a premium.

Please state clearly where you are going to get any more info on a 68 and up model. We would really like to know.

 

[70chall440]

Based on that logic....the car with the FT is obviously worth more, because it's pedigree can be proven...vs a car with stuff added on and represented as factory optioned.

How much more would that be?

 

[70chall440]

You are gonna spend $75 for false documents. That is fraud in my book.
A car with the original fender tag and build sheet is worth more than one without. A repopped tag is equal or less value than a car without. If i knew you were selling a car with a repop tag i would be telling everyone i could.

And yes, i have a 68 Charger R/T loaded with several extra options special ordered and have the original FT and build sheet. That is called provenance and will bring a premium over another with similar options and no documentation to prove it if you could find another like it.

Invest wisely.

Not false, if the tag matches what is present then its true.

 

[70chall440]

Okay for the last time if you are looking to spend real money on one of these cars and the only resource you use is the cars Fender tag ... you are a dumbass... There's no way to get around it. The bottom line is most people that get ripped off when they buy one of these cars did not do the research or we're so bent on buying the thing they didn't think ahead.

Completely agree, if you do your research and inspect the car it will tell you what you need to know in order to place a value on it. Any car is worth what you are willing to pay.

 

[moparnation74]

How much more would that be?

Why are you asking people for an answer that no one can state an actual percentage.

Do you have a reproduction or missing tag on your car?

I know your trying to push that a FT and a BS are nothing more than disposable pieces that do not add value. Your rebuttal is "who really knows all of the options". They could have had dealer installed items and sometimes not all options are on the FT. Kind reminds me of someone who use to push the same stuff.....but that guy was booted long ago.....

The buyers have shown consistently which cars command more and which ones the walk from........That won't be disproven......


Heres one for you? If a guy is looking for a car to build to an OE concours level. Is a FT important? Why is it important? Be specific...Also.....it is a Lynch Road car, so there is no BS and the window sticker is long gone......Those in mind, whats your answer?

Keep in mind this will curtail into value after your response....Since you say it adds no value......

 

[70chall440]

My point is not that having a FT and/or BC sheet adds value, it is that not having them should not detract value.

If you second comment is some attempt to intimidate me insinuating I am going to get "booted", well so be it but I thought this was still America where we can still have disagreements in public.

As to your comment about what vehicles "command" more value, I would agree with that statement despite not agreeing with why it is. To the previous point, merely having the tag and/or sheet should not be the deciding factor on value.

As to your last statement, I have no idea what you are saying or what point you are trying to make.

Conversely, my points are simple a car with a tag/sheet should not necessarily be worth more than one without in and of itself. Additionally, making a fender tag (not a VIN tag) for a car when one does not exist is not wrong nor is it illegal. Oh and for the record, I do not make or sell tags, just expressing my opinion on the subject.

 

[moparnation74]

My point is not that having a FT and/or BC sheet adds value, it is that not having them should not detract value.

If you second comment is some attempt to intimidate me insinuating I am going to get "booted", well so be it but I thought this was still America where we can still have disagreements in public.

As to your comment about what vehicles "command" more value, I would agree with that statement despite not agreeing with why it is. To the previous point, merely having the tag and/or sheet should not be the deciding factor on value.

As to your last statement, I have no idea what you are saying or what point you are trying to make.

Conversely, my points are simple a car with a tag/sheet should not necessarily be worth more than one without in and of itself. Additionally, making a fender tag (not a VIN tag) for a car when one does not exist is not wrong nor is it illegal. Oh and for the record, I do not make or sell tags, just expressing my opinion on the subject.

Why would I want you booted? I had a deja vu moment is all....Ease up Francis.....It was just so similar....lol
Your a newbie here so no one really knows you yet.......

Again, you skated around the point I made. Is that your basically saying they are nothing more than disposable documents....They neither add nor detract value......The buyers have proven they add or detract value......

You answered all questions but one? Why?

 

[dadsbee]

Owned since new, and I have no broadcast sheet or window sticker for my Bee.. I still find it valuable!!

 

[moparnation74]

Owned since new, and I have no broadcast sheet or window sticker for my Bee.. I still find it valuable!!

Wayne...why are u here.....you need to be getting that beautiful Bee with its FT ready for the wedding....

Get back to work...lol

 

[69Coronetrt]

Okay for the last time if you are looking to spend real money on one of these cars and the only resource you use is the cars Fender tag ... you are a dumbass... There's no way to get around it. The bottom line is most people that get ripped off when they buy one of these cars did not do the research or we're so bent on buying the thing they didn't think ahead.

Not true. I bought a car with a bad tag. Not because I was a dumb ***. I was lucky I wasn’t ripped off as others have been due to a bad tag.

 

[70chall440]

Why would I want you booted? I had a deja vu moment is all....Ease up Francis.....It was just so similar....lol
Your a newbie here so no one really knows you yet.......

Again you skated around the point I made that your basically saying they are nothing more than disposable documents....They neither add nor detract value......The buyers have proven they add or detract value......

You answered all questions but one? Why?

You are right, I am a "newbie" on this forum, however I am not a newbie to Mopars or the Mopar world and I have an opinion on the subject at hand.

I apologize, I did not "skate" around your question, merely overlooked it. That said, I would answer your question in this manner; having a FT and/or a BC sheet would be valuable in a concourse restoration as it would indicate options and configuration; however ever one of those options and/or configurations would be independently confirmed or denied by any reputable restorer prior to doing the work. This leads me back to a previous point, that some original tags were not correct for the car they were on when delivered; hence a confirmation being necessary by a physical inspection. This leads me back to a previous comment in which I stated that if the options on the tag were on the car (as they were supposed to be) then the car would be restored as such. As an example; if a tag said a car was supposed to have 6 way seats but upon inspect the holes were not present nor were the support bars for the seat, a restorer would then question that option and a decision would have to be made whether to build it as the tag indicates or as the car is represented.

As I am sure you know, pretty much every option that would be indicated on a tag can be verified by what is on the car and how it is on there. Therefore (and as Ronald Reagan said) "trust but verify". If you are looking at a high dollar car and are buying it for authenticity, then you should have the wherewithal to either know what to look for or hire someone to do so.

 

[moparnation74]

You are right, I am a "newbie" on this forum, however I am not a newbie to Mopars or the Mopar world and I have an opinion on the subject at hand.

I apologize, I did not "skate" around your question, merely overlooked it. That said, I would answer your question in this manner; having a FT and/or a BC sheet would be valuable in a concourse restoration as it would indicate options and configuration; however ever one of those options and/or configurations would be independently confirmed or denied by any reputable restorer prior to doing the work. This leads me back to a previous point, that some original tags were not correct for the car they were on when delivered; hence a confirmation being necessary by a physical inspection. This leads me back to a previous comment in which I stated that if the options on the tag were on the car (as they were supposed to be) then the car would be restored as such. As an example; if a tag said a car was supposed to have 6 way seats but upon inspect the holes were not present nor were the support bars for the seat, a restorer would then question that option and a decision would have to be made whether to build it as the tag indicates or as the car is represented.

As I am sure you know, pretty much every option that would be indicated on a tag can be verified by what is on the car and how it is on there. Therefore (and as Ronald Reagan said) "trust but verify". If you are looking at a high dollar car and are buying it for authenticity, then you should have the wherewithal to either know what to look for or hire someone to do so.

Thanks for admitting that they can add and detract value.......Since you finally figured out my point on the concourse level...Carry on....lol...

I deal only with OE restorations......Your typing is a waste trying to explain that to me......I dont go on "possibilities or what if's".....Time and time again the people that try to prove such things and lose in those situations.....So it is just a matter of receiving a deduction or not. Its not situations as you say above it is more in relation to parts dates that are the biggest crux. For example the build date on one of mine was 10/28/68 and the original intake is 11/1/68. I kept that as is and if I got deducted and couldn't prove my case then so be it. Thats real world...If a dealer changes an option in other words remove a "coded" part and installs a non coded part from the factory...THEN IT WAS NOT THE PART THE CAR WAS BORN WITH FROM THE FACTORY.....OE world builds cars exactly as it left the plant...just to keep things straight here...

You still have not answered the obvious question I posed in the original post....and asked in the previous post......Referncing your ft, remember?

 

[PP1RT]

Not false, if the tag matches what is present then its true.

No it doesnt. A fake tag is a fake tag and anyone that tries to pass it as truth is a liar and a fraud.

 

[dadsbee]

In addition to moparnations post on part number dates, my car build date is Feb 25th, 1969. My exhaust manifolds weren't cast until Feb 27th (which was also my Daughter Jennifer's birth date!) and my engine wasn't built/stamped until Feb 28th.

 

[70chall440]

Thanks for admitting that they can add and detract value.......Since you finally figured out my point on the concourse level...Carry on....lol...

I deal only with OE restorations......Your typing is a waste trying to explain that to me......I dont go on "possibilities or what if's".....Time and time again the people that try to prove such things and lose in those situations.....So it is just a matter of receiving a deduction or not. Its not situations as you say above it is more in relation to parts dates that are the biggest crux. For example the build date on one of mine was 10/28/68 and the original intake is 11/1/68. I kept that as is and if I got deducted and couldn't prove my case then so be it. Thats real world...If a dealer changes an option in other words remove a "coded" part and installs a non coded part from the factory...THEN IT WAS NOT THE PART THE CAR WAS BORN WITH FROM THE FACTORY.....OE world builds cars exactly as it left the plant...just to keep things straight here...

You still have not answered the obvious question I posed in the original post....and asked in the previous post......Referncing your ft, remember?

Are you referring to me having a car without a tag? Well I have had many with and without and my comments were/are not in reference to myself or my own actions, they are merely my opinion reference fender tags.

Look, I respect the concourse restoration community (can't say I understand it really) but I do respect it. That said, what bothers me is the near fanatical screams every time fender tags are mentioned. It is a self licking ice cream cone; the hobby places all of this importance on the tags but yet absolutely denies anyone with a car that doesn't have a tag the right to get one based on this "fake" and "fraudulent" BS. There is a huge difference between a restored car with matching numbers and date coded parts and just a car with a fender tag. It has created a rift in the community and drives some away from it IMO. I thought the Corvette guys were crazy, but they have nothing on the resto Mopar community.

Given that you are in the OE restoration business, do you believe you could spot a remade fender tag or a tag that was different that what the car has? I suspect the answer is a very loud "YES, of course". Therefore, you would not be fooled by a remade tag and thus would not be taken by one. Of course the next argument is that "not everyone knows enough to spot one"; well back to a point that has been made a number of times, "buyer beware" and the tag should not be the sole verification of the vehicle.

I would hazard a guess that those who fight the hardest against remaking the tags have tags on their cars and therefore do not see why anyone else should have one. Again, I respect their opinions and understand their position, I just do not agree with it. Perhaps if I was dealing in 6 figure cars I might have a different opinion (although I doubt it).

 

[33 IMP]

Two paintings available for sale, both beautiful, both masterfully done.
Number one, owner says" look, it's a Rembrandt, see ,it says so right here in the corner , signed 'Rembrandt'".
Number two, owner says" look, it's a Rembrandt, it's been authenticated by the Rembrandt specialist from the Lourve (spelling), and it has provinence going back 300 years from the museum's it's been in."
Are the paintings worth the same?

 

[beanhead]

Two paintings available for sale, both beautiful...............
Are the paintings worth the same?

 

[dart4forte]

I'm right there with you on this.
My tag is gone...I don't recall if I lost it or never had it. My Charger is a 500 model but over the years I have it dressed like an R/T. If I were to have a tag made, I'd have an "E93" for an engine code to denote the 493 cubic inches, "S27" for HD suspension, some other BS number for the 4 wheel disc brakes, the upgraded seats, etc.

Hey Kern Dog, you surviving the smoke?