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First questions on my 727 rebuild journey

Agree with oldbee on the new planetary. The one you have looks pretty worn on the housing end...probably 'dolled up' for another run, the hell with fit! Can easily be some of your endplay probs being in limits.
If it fits, it fits...if not...needs to be dealt with. You have some good ideas on taking up space, but also right that, at some locations bad to have steel against steel.
Suppose you have good #s 6, 7, and 8 washers.

Main thing is your getting there, and the right way.
 
I think excess wear was probably low fluid lubrication. From what? Don't know, (too much end play,not enuf?)??
 
oldbee said:
I think excess wear was probably low fluid lubrication. From what? Don't know, (too much end play,not enuf?)??
Click to expand...

I saw in Carl Munroe's book a suggested mod for performance or race transmission of drilling a 1/8 in hole through the case under the rear support where fluid returns from the cooler - for additional lubrication to the overrunning clutch and rear planetary. It would mean taking the overrunning clutch sand rear support out again but maybe I should make that mod.
 
Normally, it's not needed, AR67GTX. If it's something you want, go for it.
Though, the lubing on those parts usually work fine, as long as their put together right. Honestly, kinda think who built your trans, probably didn't want to spend any extra money, and used 'parts available'.

Just like anything else, parts can wear, depending on assembly, and how their treated. Been down that road plenty of times.

Your call...your hands can build it, anyway you want it!
 
The other thing that strikes be about that rear planetary is that's the only place I think where aluminum runs in direct contact with steel. The front of the rear planetary and the front/back of the front one all have a thrust washer on them to take the wear. It seems they would have wanted a copper faced washer in that location too.
 
Off hand, I don't remember what each one is made of, except #6, that's steel. But, both #6 and 7 are on the front side of the rear planetary, and #8 at the rear side.
All #6 does, besides adding spacer, is a riding surface for #7.
 
Yes, and if you remember, #8 thrust washer is splined to the output shaft so anytime the rear planetary is spinning it's aluminum back is spinning against the steel washer. It made a nice, neat wear pattern into the planetary - pretty much exactly the exact thickness of the #8 washer. I think the fact it almost looked machined that way was why I didn't pick up on it at first. I always imagined the biggest issue of a first timer rebuilding a transmission - manual or auto - was being able to identify which parts were still serviceable and those that aren't.
 
It is 'real' easy to think a part is good, especially if your not used to what to look for. Just like on that planetary cage, that has the 'extra' wear on it. Even if where the spacer rides, had some wear on the surface, simple to re-fresh that surface. But, key thing is if it's still in usable limits, the overall thickness of the cage, where the spacers ride.
I had picked up a planetary, off the shelf of a one-man trans shop, and it was the same type thing, too thin. Back it went, and 'he' knew I was sorta angry about it. Swapped it for a like new one, he was hording.
Could it have been used? If you are willing to make some sorta fix on it. Why mess with it. Especially if it's your's.

Hehe, used to take slightly used R-1820 cranks, and make them 'brand new', all day long.
 
AR- that planetary has 40+ yrs on it.LOL. I agree if you don't know what you're looking at, it's hard.I never knew what I was looking at before the internet so it was all good!! Jeez, how many mistakes did/could I have made? Everything worked out thank God.
 
AR67GTX said:
Yes, and if you remember, #8 thrust washer is splined to the output shaft so anytime the rear planetary is spinning it's aluminum back is spinning against the steel washer. It made a nice, neat wear pattern into the planetary - pretty much exactly the exact thickness of the #8 washer. I think the fact it almost looked machined that way was why I didn't pick up on it at first. I always imagined the biggest issue of a first timer rebuilding a transmission - manual or auto - was being able to identify which parts were still serviceable and those that aren't.
Click to expand...
I've killed some time, since it's been bugging me, but no tango. Been trying to locate a good photo of the #8 splined washer. Cannot remember if it's supposed to be 'coned' like your's is...or flat, just making a surface that could be replaced.
If it should be coned, which way it goes?
 
Thanks for that, Doug!

Seemed it looked a little strange. That's where alot of experience comes in. Another piece of the puzzle.
 
Yes, mine is flat. Getting transmission parts delivered is kind of like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates. I ordered a 4-gear rear planetary and they sent me a 6-gear planetary. From Carl's book I don't think there were any changes on the splines for a long time like there were for the front one - is this correct?? It's marked for 1965 to 2003 I think. It spins nice and smoothly in the annulus gear, the thickness front to back is right, looks well made. It's from Taiwan which somehow seems slightly better than mainland China.



The new one is on top. Should be OK - Yes, No??

Probably not going to be any quieter - all them planet gears whirling away in there.
 
Last edited:
AR67GTX said:
Yes, mine is flat.
Click to expand...
It's good then. Just some polishing on it. Guess it was the light, and wear pattern that made it look coned.

AR67GTX said:
The new one is on top. Should be OK - Yes, No??
Click to expand...
If it works...it's good. Yeah, I know, that's not saying much. Something you want that will do it's job, for the life of the trans. Is the endplay checking out, now?

While I'm at it, just in case you don't know...okay?
On the converter/flexplate thing. The only correct way to mount them. First thing is to locate the balancing/line-up marks for both. Flexplate should only go one way, with the bolt holes all lining up. Should be marked for that line up.
Once you have that, you can bolt up the flexplate to the rear of the crank. It too only goes on one way. Use Loctite on the threads, and torque the bolts down. Rotate the engine by hand, until the marked bolt hole is down. (That will be the first bolt installed for flexplate to the converter.)
For the converter itself...once the transmission is completely done. Look past the pump seal, for the two driving lugs, in the pump. I use a pick, or small screwdriver, to rotate the lugs until their straight up, and down.
Then, after priming the converter with a pint of trans fluid, hold it up to the trans, the lug notches up, and down. Simply stab the converter shaft into the pump, lining up both sets of splines, and the pump lugs. Converter should spin freely, trans in neutral. You want the converter's 'marked bolt hole' down.
Use a small clamp, or something, near the bottom of the trans bell housing, to keep the converter from moving forward.
Then it's time to mount the trans to the engine. Completely bolt the trans to the engine. Then is when you install the bolts from flexplate to converter. The two timed bolt holes will be exposed, one on each part, and install that bolt. If everything is right, you should have to move the converter forward, around a 1/4"-1/2".
Once the first bolt is in, rotate the engine by hand, until the next bolt hole is exposed, put the bolt in...and go from there.
It's done like that, so no real weight is put on the plate.
 
On the #8 thrust washer I was thinking about polishing it some with some 1500 and 2000 wet/dry. I used a pair of outside calipers to check the depth of the new case and then slipped it over the old one. I didn't actually measure the difference with a feeler gage but by eyesight it's definitely a lot thicker (I would guess .040 to .050) so it will pick up most of the excess end play. With various snap rings and the .010 shims I have I'm going to try to get it (planetary train) to around .010 to .015 on set up.

Thanks for the primer on converter mounting. I wasn't sure how much difficulty it is getting the converter to fully seat and engage on all the lugs and splines.

None of my bolts had thread locker on them. I like some premium blue medium strength locker since it holds good but I don't have to get a propane torch out to remove them. Good enough?
 
AR67GTX said:
Thanks for the primer on converter mounting. I wasn't sure how much difficulty it is getting the converter to fully seat and engage on all the lugs and splines.
Click to expand...
Your most welcome. As usual, I learned that the hard way. Some already know, some don't... Engaging the converter, most of the time, I've got to hold it back, keeping it from slamming into place. Ha! At the most, just a little wiggle, to engage the splines. More important, the pump lugs...too easy to fight that deal.

What! No propane! Yeah, fully agree...the blue will be fine. No use making this stuff harder, than it is.
Good deal on the endplay! Admit, seems like you have had a journey on your build. Most builds usually only need clutches, and seals replaced. You've had to deal with some hard parts. Good thing is, you will know it's right.
 
Thanks Miller - you must be an early riser too. I hope to resume work on it today but I'm halfway through day 8 of the worst damn head crap of some sort and sinus infection I think I've ever had. At least I feel pretty familiar with this TF now so as long as I check everything twice and take my time I should be able to get it back together - foggy mind or not.
 
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