Ford Tried To Be Tesla, And It Cost The Company Billions

[kiwigtx]

EV's GOVERNMENT "BAIL-OUT" COMING IN 2025!! To "BIG TO FAIL"

I was just thinking I could smell a bailout on the way.....

 

[kiwigtx]

How many times does big corporate get to tank the economy before the people pulling strings start to wake up?

I guess as long as filthy corporate leaders have their fingers in the pie, this BS will never stop.

 

[Photon440]

OH BOY! That's what I want to hear, they can;t sell an already flakey, can;t charge it indoors EV so they will MAKE IT CHEAPER.

Know when else the big three made it cheaper? 2007. When they got our tax money. Dodge had rust out on the wheel wells on their trucks when they were 2 years old up here. So did Ford. Chevy trucks that year had severe engine failure. Their cars are forgettable and most were junk. I am sure a cheap built EV will turn out to be a real inspiration to future buyers. Deffinately want to compete with china EV's, that light on fire parked in the street, axles fall off randomly, and a thousand other things caught on video they try to suppress.

Chrysler didn't get bail out money until 2009. Did the other companies get it sooner?

 

[MarPar]

How many times does big corporate get to tank the economy before the people pulling strings start to wake up?

I guess as long as filthy corporate leaders have their fingers in the pie, this BS will never stop.

They are ALL in bed together

 

[Hey-O]

How many times does big corporate get to tank the economy before the people pulling strings start to wake up?

I guess as long as filthy corporate leaders have their fingers in the pie, this BS will never stop.

Who's pushing this big new technology, not the car makers. Chrysler would still be building Hemis if they could. This is coming from our world leaders, and some tree hugger that flies around all day in a private jet telling me I'm f**king up the planet. This is a cart before the horse pipe dream. How many times has someone told you, it's just a wire, how much could that possibly cost.

Look at ethanol, it contains about 30% less energy than gasoline. Water, corn consumption and the problems it created for two-stroke engines. The amount of ethanol to be used was mandated as a political decision. Congress set somewhat arbitrary amounts to be blended. The current administration and the E.P.A. had decided to require a larger amount of ethanol to be blended into gasoline in an effort to increase domestic fuel supplies, lower gasoline prices, but what about the drop in mileage. How can 30 percent less energy help these car companies get these cars to get better GOVERNMENT mandated gas mileage. Those that know the least, talk the most. How much could one wire cost, 14 or 8 gauge, forgot to mention that....

 

[chargervert]

Ford is scaling back their EV plans while Stellantis is ramping up their EV program,which company will survive? I said it before,if we don't buy them,they will be forced to produce what customers want to buy!

 

[Hey-O]

Bailouts, I hate bailouts, but I'm about the money. They push these companies with their BS now, they'll be a trickle down effect, for every job at a car company, there are 10 jobs associated with them. Health care, pensions, massive unemployment and hundreds of thousands of stranded retirees. Greed in the car business, like any business is a given, now add polities to the equation and you have the perfect storm. Just so you understand, I have no dog in this fight. I don't need any of them and I really don't care anymore. I have little left to protect, but if you want it, bring an army. The government created me and millions just like me.... Tell me this world isn't jacked up. General Discussion Forum.

 

[Detective D]

Chrysler didn't get bail out money until 2009. Did the other companies get it sooner?

That was the era the big three were in the similar state they are now. Ford started making trashy vehicles(I mean extra trashy) late 2005 and into 2006. GM's biggest fail was with their trucks in the 07 "new model" release, but they had some real dandy cars and killed Pontiac etc. Chrysler made a couple years of really good third gen trucks, then cheaped on the steel around 07-08.
They were in a bad way, and then got bailed out. Quality didn;t really ramp back up till '11 though, but they all had some new models arrive that were pretty notable, Ford released the 5.0, Chrysler overhauled the Charger/300 platform and put VVT on the 5.7, GM had resolved their issues with the trucks by then. Not sure what part the bailout played in any of that, but living in the salt belt you get to see in short order when one of them cuts costs lol.

I imagine we might be in a similar place now. The warranty claims going on with major stuff across the country, Ford straight up announcing they were going to look at cost cutting, I think in a couple years time we will see that last year some, this year, next year are some real doozie's in their lineups. Especially if they suddenly have a price drop on different models.

i am still of the opinion, depending on how this fall goes, that we will see cash for clunkers 2: electric boogaloo as part of this situation. I know they could offer me 30 grand for my 2002 8.1L Chebby for an EV and I would tell them to pound sand, but a lot of people would go for it and then parts suppliers would see less demand and the trickle down on used car prices and parts would happen. It fits perfectly with their mandates by 2032.

 

[Photon440]

That was the era the big three were in the similar state they are now. Ford started making trashy vehicles(I mean extra trashy) late 2005 and into 2006. GM's biggest fail was with their trucks in the 07 "new model" release, but they had some real dandy cars and killed Pontiac etc. Chrysler made a couple years of really good third gen trucks, then cheaped on the steel around 07-08.
They were in a bad way, and then got bailed out. Quality didn;t really ramp back up till '11 though, but they all had some new models arrive that were pretty notable, Ford released the 5.0, Chrysler overhauled the Charger/300 platform and put VVT on the 5.7, GM had resolved their issues with the trucks by then. Not sure what part the bailout played in any of that, but living in the salt belt you get to see in short order when one of them cuts costs lol.

GM didn't kill Pontiac in '07, it kept going until 2010 after the bailout. And the bailout had nothing to do with the VVT on the 5.7; that had already arrived in 2005. The Ford 5.0 was just a variation of the 4.6 and 5.4 modular engine that had been around since the 1990s.

It's true how bad the quality was getting in Chrysler products by 2007, but it wasn't Chrysler, it was Daimler who pulled out the content. As soon as Cerberus bought them out (prior to Fiat) they knew what was needed and started putting quality back in.

 

[33 IMP]

Believe it or not awhile back I had heard Tesla had surpassed Toyota in sales volume for all cars here in the looney bin state. Toyota has reigned for years but no more. Those things are everywhere out here.

Yep. Walking my dog around the block in my ultra-liberal small college town, I think I saw seven electrics on the one square block. Three on one driveway alone (scared to put em in the garage, maybe?) The next door neighbor had two, if you count the prius.

 

[oldbee]

AND, where are all those roadside charging stations???

 

[33 IMP]

AND, where are all those roadside charging stations???

I read somewhere they budgeted a couple billion for those. Got two of em built!

 

[Hey-O]

I read somewhere they budgeted a couple billion for those. Got two of em built!

Two down, a few more to finish!!! LOL

 

[Brandy]

I swear that the powers that be sit around and think up new ways to enact BS programs to give them something to funnel tax dollars towards so they can then syphon off a percentage for themselves.

 

[Kern Dog]

VVT on the 5.7; that had already arrived in 2005.

I don't think so. MDS was in some of the the 2006 models but the VVT didn't show up until 2008 or 2009.

 

[Detective D]

GM didn't kill Pontiac in '07, it kept going until 2010 after the bailout. And the bailout had nothing to do with the VVT on the 5.7; that had already arrived in 2005. The Ford 5.0 was just a variation of the 4.6 and 5.4 modular engine that had been around since the 1990s.

It's true how bad the quality was getting in Chrysler products by 2007, but it wasn't Chrysler, it was Daimler who pulled out the content. As soon as Cerberus bought them out (prior to Fiat) they knew what was needed and started putting quality back in.

LOL, the 5.0 is NOT a 4.6/5.4. That's like saying the GM 5.3 is basically a 350 because they both have pushrods, or the newer Ford 7.3 gas is basically a Chevy LS motor because of the same.
GM announced Pontiac shutting down in early 2009. You know as well as I do they didn't roll out of bed that morning and look in the mirror and say F it, time to cut Pontiac, someone call the press.
The first gen 5.7 ran through 2009. Not sure if the camshaft wizardry they put in was used in the Charger/300 that year or not, honestly by the time I was looking for a car the '11 "new" models had come out. SO I might be off a year or two, but the change wasn't there in 2005 for sure. That might be when the 6.1 hit the market, I would have to look. But the first gen 5.7 was 03(trucks, Magnum station wagon, then Charger/300) through cut off for 2009 models.
As far as Daimler, Daimler was Chrysler for all it mattered. Just like Fiat might as well be Chrysler now.

 

[33 IMP]

I swear that the powers that be sit around and think up new ways to enact BS programs to give them something to funnel tax dollars towards so they can then syphon off a percentage for themselves.

California has two beauties! Deposit on bottles and cans. When you take em back to the recycler, you get 20 cents on the dollar for cans, and about 5 cents on the dollar for plastic (IF that!)
And, ten cents a bag for grocery bags. Who knows where all that money goes, not to the bag manufacturers or the grocery stores, that's for sure! Oh, environmental projects? Like making politicians home environment more pleasant, I'll bet.
The theft is staggering!

 

[Photon440]

LOL, the 5.0 is NOT a 4.6/5.4. That's like saying the GM 5.3 is basically a 350 because they both have pushrods, or the newer Ford 7.3 gas is basically a Chevy LS motor because of the same.
GM announced Pontiac shutting down in early 2009. You know as well as I do they didn't roll out of bed that morning and look in the mirror and say F it, time to cut Pontiac, someone call the press.
The first gen 5.7 ran through 2009. Not sure if the camshaft wizardry they put in was used in the Charger/300 that year or not, honestly by the time I was looking for a car the '11 "new" models had come out. SO I might be off a year or two, but the change wasn't there in 2005 for sure. That might be when the 6.1 hit the market, I would have to look. But the first gen 5.7 was 03(trucks, Magnum station wagon, then Charger/300) through cut off for 2009 models.
As far as Daimler, Daimler was Chrysler for all it mattered. Just like Fiat might as well be Chrysler now.

The 5.0 was indeed an evolution of the 4.6. It utilized the same bore spacing, deck height, bell housing pattern and connecting rod length as the 4.6. It ran down the same production lines using the same tooling as the other modular engine designs. They changed the firing order (not a big deal, they also changed the firing order on the old 5.0 HO engine) and it did indeed have a much better cylinder head design but the origins were still in the past.

GM fought against cutting Pontiac, it had great heritage. It wasn't their idea, it was mandated as part of the buy out package along with cutting Hummer and Saturn. They didn't decided to cut it on their own and Bob Lutz was one of the people trying to have it stay.

Yes, Chrysler's Variable Camshaft Timing (VTC) was a 2009 innovation, but that's not the same as VVT which did happen earlier in 2005 (except for manual transmission applications). So the first generation, produced through to 2008, had many variations including different intake manifolds depending on application, meaning that there were a lot of different 5.7 parts.

Too bad this was a fake add from earlier this year:

 

[Detective D]

The 5.0 was indeed an evolution of the 4.6. It utilized the same bore spacing, deck height, bell housing pattern and connecting rod length as the 4.6. It ran down the same production lines using the same tooling as the other modular engine designs. They changed the firing order (not a big deal, they also changed the firing order on the old 5.0 HO engine) and it did indeed have a much better cylinder head design but the origins were still in the past.

GM fought against cutting Pontiac, it had great heritage. It wasn't their idea, it was mandated as part of the buy out package along with cutting Hummer and Saturn. They didn't decided to cut it on their own and Bob Lutz was one of the people trying to have it stay.

Yes, Chrysler's Variable Camshaft Timing (VTC) was a 2009 innovation, but that's not the same as VVT which did happen earlier in 2005 (except for manual transmission applications). So the first generation, produced through to 2008, had many variations including different intake manifolds depending on application, meaning that there were a lot of different 5.7 parts.

Too bad this was a fake add from earlier this year:
View attachment 1716186

The only thing the same with a 5.0 was they intentionally made it to be able to reuse their existing machining centers. So yeah, bore spacing is the same.
Literally nothing is swappable.
Besides, if the heads are different, the intake, the cam(s) the rotating assembly(despite sharing a dimension or two) exhaust.... how is that the same engine then? 351M and a Cleveland used the same heads in the 70's, are they the same then?
An "evolution" of an engine that 90% of the engine is different is not the same engine. Like an Olds 350 is the same as a Pontiac 350 because the displacement is the same right? A 302 and 351W share a lot of parts, are they the same? How about the early 4.6 vs the late 90's 4.6 vs the cobra 4.6 vs the three valve 4.6? All the same then I guess.

GM fought against cutting everything I imagine, that is how negotiations work. They could have cut GMC. Or Buick. They picked Poncho. I don't really care about anything Bob says or said, once he publicly supported mandatory autonomous driving modules, even retrofit into older cars, in an interview he did years back i wrote him off as an asshole globalist.

 

[Photon440]

Literally nothing is swappable.
Besides, if the heads are different, the intake, the cam(s) the rotating assembly(despite sharing a dimension or two) exhaust.... how is that the same engine then?

I never said that they were the same engine. I said the 5.0 was an evolution of the 4.6. You may as well argue that a 1967 Chrysler 440 and 383 are two completely different designs (different blocks, heads, cranks, pistons, rods, intake, distributor) but most enthusiasts still acknowledge that they're classified as the same family of Mopar big block.

I'm out.