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Guys, why am I pumping and cranking?

cruiser

cruiser

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Hello all: I have a very stock 69 Charger RT/SE with a stock 440 HP motor running the stock Carter AVS 4640S carb, which has been rebuilt. Stock fuel pump, lines and vapor separator. The engine runs well. When the car has sat for more than 3-4 days, I have to crank it a lot ( 30 - 40 sec.) to get it started. The carb accelerator pump and choke are working correctly. But when I start it up after sitting for only a day, it fires right up. It's as if all the fuel drained out of the carb and fuel lines from the fuel pump, and it takes forever for the fuel to make its way back to the engine. It has to sit for about four days, as I mentioned, for this problem to appear. Also, the engine does not go to a high idle after starting. Just a normal curb idle. Are these things supposed to go to a high idle that you kick down before you begin driving? Ideas? Thanks.
 
Last edited:
cruiser said:
Hello all: I have a very stock 69 Charger RT/SE with a stock 440 HP motor running the stock Carter 4640S carb, which has been rebuilt. Stock fuel pump, lines and vapor separator. The engine runs well. When the car has sat for more than 3-4 days, I have to crank it a lot ( 30 - 40 sec.) to get it started. The carb accelerator pump and choke are working correctly. But when I start it up after sitting for only a day, it fires right up. It's as if all the fuel drained out of the carb and fuel lines from the fuel pump, and it takes forever for the fuel to make its way back to the engine. It has to sit for about four days, as I mentioned, for this problem to appear. Also, the engine does not go to a high idle after starting. Just a normal curb idle. Are these things supposed to go to a high idle that you kick down before you begin driving? Ideas? Thanks.
Click to expand...
No fast idle? either improperly set or the choke is not right. That can also cause hard starting and the need to pump the pedal. Let it sit for a few days and before you start it, take off the air cleaner and look down the throat of the carb. Pump the gas and if you don't see a spray from the accelerator pump nozzles the gas has evaporated from the carb. A vane type electric fuel pump hooked to a momentary switch can help that issue. A thick carb base gasket can help a bit too. It insulates the carb from the hot engine when you shut it off. Now, today's puppy pee gas evaporates easily. Non ethanol is the way to go but it still disappear easily.
 
The "fuel" has evaporated. I have the same issue with my stock 65 318 2 Bbl. No fast idle is an adjustment problem.
Mike
 
Well known and often discussed topic here (and I'm sure, elsewhere).
It's the ethanol in the gasoline - yes, especially with Carter/Edelbrocks, the fuel evaporates
from the fuel bowls after a few days and the engine has to pump fresh fuel up from the
tank when next cranked up.
 
One more thing is that you need to pump the pedal at least once before starting it to activate the choke and fast idle but it sounds like you're choke is probably needing adjustment as other have stated.
 
I don't think it matters which type of gas, I use 91 octane with No ethanol and it does the same thing.
 
I have a carter competition series on my Plymouth and it will start in probably 10 seconds we when after sitting for weeks.
But I do have a high volume pump and a mini starter so it cranks over more quickly.
 
Chargered said:
I don't think it matters which type of gas, I use 91 octane with No ethanol and it does the same thing.
Click to expand...
It's all of them anymore, you're right. The supposed no-ethanol 93 I've been getting does it also,
just not as quickly.
 
install a mini starter, what a difference it makes for starting.
 
Same issue with my 383.
Cranks right up the next day or the second day.
Sits a week or more and it take two crank cycles to get an initial burp start and then cranks fine.
 
Manually fill the float bowls. You can look things over and check fluids while you are under there. No,need to install a China cheapo electric pump, just another leak point someday.

Not good to crank starter for extended periods. Will really test/strain all the electrical pieces and connections.
 
Last edited:
moparedtn said:
Well known and often discussed topic here (and I'm sure, elsewhere).
It's the ethanol in the gasoline - yes, especially with Carter/Edelbrocks, the fuel evaporates
from the fuel bowls after a few days and the engine has to pump fresh fuel up from the
tank when next cranked up.
Click to expand...
Strange thing...
This car....

Charger 10 fffx.JPG


With this induction...

493 H.jpg


493 J.jpg


Can sit for 2 weeks or more and still fire up after less than 10 seconds. If it is within a week, two pumps and it will start.
You know that Ethanol is the law of the land in this state, too.
 
While we’re on the topic and rather than starting a new thread….
I have an edelbrock 1411 and it always goes to high idle when cold but she slowly sneaks up on a guy. One time I started it in the garage, went back in the house to get something, and by the time I came back out it was running at 3 grand! All you have to do is give the gas pedal a tap to bring it back down but it’s a pain in the arse to baby sit it while it’s warming up. Is there an adjustment for this?
 
Sounds like the choke needs setup and confirmed before you really get wound up about anything else.

On my cars after they sit for a long time, month plus, I do this. Works like a charm.
Crank for 10 seconds (don’t touch the pedal, during the step at all), pump pedal 3-4 times slowly, count to 8, hit the key and they fire right.

I’m a stickler for proper choke adjustment too.
 
The best cure would be an electric pump to get gas to the carb. I have a Tanks Inc with an electric pump in the tank and car sits for a month, run pump before start and then fires right up. It's a little costly but worth it not having to crank for a few minutes. With pump in tank is also very quiet, which is another good point.
 
fine69 said:
While we’re on the topic and rather than starting a new thread….
I have an edelbrock 1411 and it always goes to high idle when cold but she slowly sneaks up on a guy. One time I started it in the garage, went back in the house to get something, and by the time I came back out it was running at 3 grand! All you have to do is give the gas pedal a tap to bring it back down but it’s a pain in the arse to baby sit it while it’s warming up. Is there an adjustment for this?
Click to expand...
Yes. The fast idle adjustment is usually on the throttle cable side of the carb behind the curb idle screw. Sometimes tough to get to depending on what carb you have. A half a turn may be all you need. It depends on what step of the fast idle cam the screw hits. Here's a short Edelbrock video that may help.
 
If it takes 30 seconds or more to get fuel to the carb it is probably due to a problem with the pump. Either bad check valve or pump diaphragm allowing it to drain back.

I had this problem before adding a fuel pressure regulator. Many seconds of cranking before firing if it had been sitting even a couple days. Added a fuel pressure regulator in the engine compartment and it fires right off, even after a week or more of sitting, but runs like garbage for 10-15 seconds. The regulator keeps enough fuel available to fire off, but not enough to run well while the pump is trying to do its thing.

It’s not an evaporation problem, at least in my case. I’m replacing the pump this week, I’m sure it’s the issue.
 
tonysrt said:
The best cure would be an electric pump to get gas to the carb.
Click to expand...
I do this with my old cars. Use a switched primer pump,after she fires and runs a few minutes shut the pump off.Then the mechanical takes over.
 
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