Hemi build

[Hemirunner]

Iron heads technically make more power if they flow the same as the aluminum, but the weight is a killer for me. I went with StageV that only had mild blending. Tim

That's my point. They won't make enough HP over an aluminum head to even come close to offsetting the extra weight.

 

[snakeoil24]

Aluminum Heads are fine just stay away from Mopar heads using stage V is a beautiful thing. Otherwise for Street Mopar the Iron heads still are best.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Iron heads technically make more power if they flow the same as the aluminum, but the weight is a killer for me. I went with StageV that only had mild blending. Tim

That myth has been debunked for about ten years now through several high end mags. It's just not true. There only advantages go to aluminum for the weight difference and ease of repair. Other than that, all things being equal, the power output is the same. These are but two countless examples.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0602_iron_versus_aluminum_cylinder_heads_test/viewall.html

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-aluminum-and-iron-heads/

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Nothing wrong with iron heads.My '68 heads have a bowl blend and aren't even gasket matched.I make a little under 800HP on pump gas:headbang:

 

[Tunis]

Well, thank you all for your contributions! I guess there are as many answers as there are racers/engine builders and we don't always agree on what is the best (iron/aluminum).

I will be using Stage V aluminum heads when the time comes to finish gathering parts, mostly because of the weight savings and quality.

Is there anything to gain by o-ringing the intake to head side, with the target hp for this engine (~600 hp). Tim Banning at FHO use that on all his heads if I understand correctly. He also uses some CNC machining on all of his heads and I must say they sound really nice, well except for the price.

Then there is Eddie at HemiHaines that quoted me a much more attractive price for a set of heads with standard machining such as bowl clean up, guide honing etc.

What is your thoughts on that? Go with the more machined heads (=better??) or go for the cheaper. It will most certainly determine when I will afford to finish the build.

I will also run with a solid roller cam and a, for a solid roller, mild cam to save the valve train (.600-.650 lift maximum).

What are your thoughts on oiling? I have a 7 qt oil pan now (I think) and I have read a lot of different thoughts about running a high volume oil pump and draining the pan. What can I do to avoid draining the pan if that really is a problem? Should I run a HV oil pump or a standard?

I will run oil-through-pushrod with this.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me with these thoughts and concerns.

Per

 

[Hemirunner]

I'd use the current generation of Mopar Performance aluminum hemi head. Any competent shop should be able to check valve guide clearances and the valve job. They won't need any port or bowl work to make 600hp. None. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell port work.

The only thing to gain by machining the o-ring into the head is an easier sealing intake needing no gasket. A luxury to be sure but not a neccessity by any means. Again CNC porting is not needed to make 600hp with one of these.

7qt pan is fine. You can run it with a high volume pump if you wish. Hemis have four corner oil drainbacks. You won't drain the pan. If you pushrod oil, run restrictors in the pushrods to keep from putting all the oil up top. I run .030 restrictors in them when I build one that oils that way. I prefer the Barton/T&D rocker setup with bottom up spray bar oiling. It really cuts down on the volume of wasted oil being sent to the heads. I swapped over to this rocker setup from stock rockers on a race hemi
and the oil pressure went from 20psi hot oil at idle to 40psi hot oil at idle. That's a huge volume change.

 

[rev.ronnie]

The Mopar performance Hemi aluminum heads, purchased complete, should include;

-Heat cycling the castings. (things do move around on a virgin casting)
-Re-profiling intake and exhaust seats and equalizing depths, there are better angles than stock to utilize.
-Light blending of the throat cut to the bowl
-Finishing the seat with a fine finish stone
-Precision face grinding the valves
-Checking and honing valve guides as required
Correcting/milling the surface finish as required for the gasket to be used, (MLS, copper etc.)
-Setting spring installed heights for proper pressure per cam requirements.
-Assembling with new 21-4N Precision stainless valves and flourolastomer valve seals
-Installing correct dual spring/retainer/spring seat package required for the cam to be used.

They should run 3200-$3400 a pair, ready to install, plus o-ringing, or receiver groove cutting if desired.

There are a lot of shops selling them, just know what you're buying, and what they are doing. I have seen some brand new parts butchered so bad that I was shocked. Ask the right questions.

It's quite a bargain if you considering that I've had guys spend close to 3k restoring OE heads..I know, different application, but still a good comparison.

 

[Tunis]

Thank you all for your replies!

It's been awhile since I posted here last time, should have ordered the heads by now but I have had to put my money elsewhere.
Can anyone recommend a good shop that will sell me a cleaned up Stage V replacement head that will support the 600 hp goal using quality parts. I mean the work mentioned by rev.ronnie plus I have reconsidered the use of solid roller and have instead turned towards the hydraulic roller and the heads will thus require grinding to clear the pushrods. I also need a cam and I have been informed that around 240 duration, 114 LSA and some .600 lift should be fine for EFI and 600 hp.

Thank you!

 

[rev.ronnie]

Thank you all for your replies!

It's been awhile since I posted here last time, should have ordered the heads by now but I have had to put my money elsewhere.
Can anyone recommend a good shop that will sell me a cleaned up Stage V replacement head that will support the 600 hp goal using quality parts. I mean the work mentioned by rev.ronnie plus I have reconsidered the use of solid roller and have instead turned towards the hydraulic roller and the heads will thus require grinding to clear the pushrods. I also need a cam and I have been informed that around 240 duration, 114 LSA and some .600 lift should be fine for EFI and 600 hp.

Thank you!

Follow the build I have on my FB page listed. Everything I told you that should be done, I do in my shop...that and much more.

This should give you an idea of what you are looking for. If the shop is not doing all their own machine work, find out who is doing it.

 

[Tunis]

I'm about to order pars for my engine. I will order a ATI damper, but which one should I pick, the 917470E or the 917122E? The 917122E appears to be the better one.. What crank pulley should I use? I want to use parts that looks as close to stock as possible. I need a 2-groove crank pulley for my P/S...

If I can't find a pulley that places the belt a stock location, what other brand of balancer should I use that I can use with stock pulleys (preferably the wedge crank pulley as they are cheaper last time I looked)?

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Tunis]

Has no one put an ATI balancer on a Hemi and still used alternator, P/S and water pump? I can live with a non stock looking crank pulley as long as it is black, just as long as it puts the belt in the correct location.

Thank you!

 

[snakeoil24]

I still tell you that A single four barrel runs circles around duel or tri carbs. But if your looking for eye candy the duels or tri carb look nice just dont run near as well as a sinlge on Street. Get the biggest balancer you can find.

 

[astjp2]

You need to know the thickness of the balancer to know the pulley you need. Once you know it, google for balancers and pulleys and see if you find some data that gives you some numbers to work with. I went with a balancer that I could use a 440 pulley with. Tim

 

[Bigal75]

Yeah I have an ATI on my Hemi and I had to search a little to line up the pulleys. If you go ATI use a big block water pump pulley and a crank pulley that has a 3" back spacing. You will need a spacer that's about 3/16 thick (crank pulley) I'm using single grove pulleys.

 

[Tunis]

Thank you very much for that!

 

[hemicharger572]

I'd use the current generation of Mopar Performance aluminum hemi head. Any competent shop should be able to check valve guide clearances and the valve job. They won't need any port or bowl work to make 600hp. None. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell port work.

The only thing to gain by machining the o-ring into the head is an easier sealing intake needing no gasket. A luxury to be sure but not a neccessity by any means. Again CNC porting is not needed to make 600hp with one of these.

7qt pan is fine. You can run it with a high volume pump if you wish. Hemis have four corner oil drainbacks. You won't drain the pan. If you pushrod oil, run restrictors in the pushrods to keep from putting all the oil up top. I run .030 restrictors in them when I build one that oils that way. I prefer the Barton/T&D rocker setup with bottom up spray bar oiling. It really cuts down on the volume of wasted oil being sent to the heads. I swapped over to this rocker setup from stock rockers on a race hemi
and the oil pressure went from 20psi hot oil at idle to 40psi hot oil at idle. That's a huge volume change.

Hi hemmirunner,
I am going to buy the Ray Barton rocker system. In the past I had huge oil pressure problems when the engine was hot. I was using the Roller Rockers from David Knapp from Canada with a push rod oiling option. Do you think with new Ray Barton Rockers it should be better? I already have a high volumne oil pump.

BTW: Do you or somebody else have any experiences with the new Indy Hi Po heads?

Thanks

Edit: I will take the ATI Balancer too, it is like everytime: you get what you pay for..