Hughes or Engle cam

[BSB67]

BSB67 awesome info! Actually Dave also recommended the SEH3642BL cam as well as a smaller choice. He gave me two options. I see the smaller of the two is good at 3000RPM an the bigger is 3500RPM. I just don't want to overcam the engine and be disappointed. Idle I want choppy but I need vacuum for the brakes. That is what makes me lean towards the 238 duration with a 110 degree lobe separation. I have also been told to bump the cam up by a couple sizes with the stroker as it will eat up some duration. I basically want a nice sounding street engine that doesn't idle like an RV like mine does now. The cam is so small it has almost zero chop to it. As long as it makes vacuum for the brakes, the rest is easily manageable with the 4 speed and a 3.55 gear in the rear. I am leaning towards that K60 grind with a 110 lobe separation. The smaller ramps in Chris's cam with less lift will be a little more forgiving to my valvetrain. UNless you think the 244 degrees of duration will be eaten up with the stroker by that much? The car is all stock weight and has 10.75:1 compression with eddy rpm performer heads, performer rpm manifold, 850 quick fuel w/ mechanical secondaries, and a 440 source 500" stroker rotating assembly. I have a 28" tall rear tire on it, so with 3.55's it will be right about 3000RPM at 70MPH. I do have a 3.23 sure grip center section here that I could throw in, but I think that drops me out of the power band I want around town to have fun with.

Don't hold on too tight to what the literature says about motor specs per cam. Its a rough guideline. The literature does not know if you have a 361 B motor, or a 500+ RB motor. My cam is in the range you're talking about, has a 3.23 with a stock converter, no part throttle kick down, and drives through the neighborhood at 1100 rpm in third gear nicely. Plus, your 4 speed give you a lot of driving flexibility.

And the 238° will definitely work well too.

 

[91r/t]

Don't hold on too tight to what the literature says about motor specs per cam. Its a rough guideline. The literature does not know if you have a 361 B motor, or a 500+ RB motor. My cam is in the range you're talking about, has a 3.23 with a stock converter, no part throttle kick down, and drives through the neighborhood at 1100 rpm in third gear nicely. Plus, your 4 speed give you a lot of driving flexibility.

And the 238° will definitely work well too.

Yea I think that is the perfect range for the car for power and cruising. Thanks for the info man! I appreciate the knowledge. I feel I am not gaining anything by going with the next cam up from the K60 for what I am doing with the car. The rev box is set to 5500 so no point in worrying about power higher than 6000 RPM. K60 with a 110 lobe separation it is I guess.

 

[Fran Blacker]

You would want the milder cam if go to 3.23, 3.55 or 3.73 since your not going over 5500 rpm. Lower rpm torque MO.

 

[91r/t]

Yea and it should still have a nice idle to it with that cam, as it isn't a tiny cam either way. Seems like a good happy medium for me.

 

[m79ded]

How was the idle? Did it have a good chop to it still? What were you making for manifold vacuum on a gauge if you don't mind me asking?

On my 451 it got 12" of vacuum @ 900rpm idle and the idle was sweet. Got a really nice choppy idle without the crazy shake rattle and roll if you know what I mean. Now with that being said on a 500" engine it will be even milder so more vacuum and smoother idle. Mind you it's a solid and it performs amazing. The car makes really nice torque and with 3.55 and a 4100lbs car it easily runs 11's. You will get lots of opinions and at times 2nd guess, but in reality a 500" engine is forgiving if you happen to go bigger on the cam. The dilemma you might face is that too small IMHO(like that SEH3642BL 236°/242°) will make a stump puller and nothing on top. I would prefer the (K-62/K-64 244°/249°) cam. Car with your setup will feel better, and by all means go to a 112. Mine is a solid in that 451 and I couldn't be happier. I tried it vs even a HYD roller and the roller didn't even compare. I will enclose a Dyno run with it and look at numbers in the low and mid where most of your driving comes in. A smaller cam with a big motor will just make it come in earlier and taper off earlier. Good luck

 

[mentor70]

Howards cams is grinding many Hughes cams "black label"...Howards has a ton of grinds, and they are all cheaper than Hughes.

I ran a 238@ .050 cam from Hughes on a 108 LSA in my first 500 stroker and it was TOO small, ran like crap. I had flat tops with Edelbrock heads, and it had 11.6 to 1 compression...needed more cam and a wider LSA IMO.

110 is a tight as i would go.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Put 4.10's in my car in spring VERY unhappy with them. 3500 rpm and I'm clogging up the highway. They're coming out.

They are AWESOME with a Passon Performance a855 5 speed...
2,750 RPMs at 75 mph

 

[biomedtechguy]

should still have a nice idle

I like the sound of 108 degree centerline cams

I want choppy

Yummy! Cam Chop...

 

[91r/t]

Howards cams is grinding many Hughes cams "black label"...Howards has a ton of grinds, and they are all cheaper than Hughes.

I ran a 238@ .050 cam from Hughes on a 108 LSA in my first 500 stroker and it was TOO small, ran like crap. I had flat tops with Edelbrock heads, and it had 11.6 to 1 compression...needed more cam and a wider LSA IMO.

110 is a tight as i would go.

This is exactly my fear of going too small with a stroker. I do drive on the street but I drive my cars relatively hard and DO NOT want to build a turd above 4000. I run the car fairly hard and want it to run good throughout the curve. I may lean towards the K62 with a 112 degree lobe separation for vacuum reasons. I am going to yank the cam this weekend and see what the hell is in it now. Hope the serial numbers are ground into the end of it so I can tell what I don't want in it. Right now the car does exactly that.....runs hard as hell until 4500 then falls on its face. I don't mind the crazy torque out of the box, but it has zero traction and I would like to move the curve up a bit from idle. I will look at what I have in it and see how it compares to the cams we are discussing. I bought the car as-is from a buddies wife with no cam card so right now until this weekend I am in the dark. I do know that right now the car makes about 13-14 in/mg. of vacuum which is indicative of a smaller cam than what we are talking about.

 

[wyrmrider]

I have not had time to read the whole thread
but- in general I used and sold cams from Engle for about 40+ years
Engle did grind Hughes cams- you can find the Engle line specs on the Hughes website under old cams or something like that
Engle grinds are not RADICAL, like the similar Crane and Mopar Performance grinds they wear well and are reasonably trouble free
FYI the grinds shown in the Engle catalog are not their Chrysler grinds- I have a list or you can see some of them under AMC- I can post a list later if you like- just compare the specs with the sbc page and if they are the same ask for a real MOPAR grind- same is true with other grinders- Crower on their shorter cams-Comp except for the XE---HL series etc
If I had to guess Howard is grinding Hughes cams- if Howard the Howards tend to be a little bigger area under the curve for the same duration
ie more acceleration- which can be good or not depending on how detailed you are about springs and valve geometry and all the other aspects of your build I would say Lunati is somewhere in the middle Bullet (not Ultradyne) also has a full line of Mopar Hyd lobes and also easy to deal with
I prefer a 3 bolt cam/gear

 

[91r/t]

Ok boys prepare to laugh......so I yanked the cam out tonight of the motor and lone behold. I find an ISKY cam (ISKY 280 HL HYD 165128) that I have a cam card for that belongs in a small truck or RV. Duration @.050 is 224 degrees and the lift is .465 with a 108 degree lobe center. No wonder it idled smooth and died at 4000 RPM. That is close to a stock 383 cam from back in the day. What say you to that??? Hahaha what a joke I almost laughed when I read the data on it. What a relief knowing why the motor was a slouch and had a shitty lame idle.

 

[91r/t]

I have not had time to read the whole thread
but- in general I used and sold cams from Engle for about 40+ years
Engle did grind Hughes cams- you can find the Engle line specs on the Hughes website under old cams or something like that
Engle grinds are not RADICAL, like the similar Crane and Mopar Performance grinds they wear well and are reasonably trouble free
FYI the grinds shown in the Engle catalog are not their Chrysler grinds- I have a list or you can see some of them under AMC- I can post a list later if you like- just compare the specs with the sbc page and if they are the same ask for a real MOPAR grind- same is true with other grinders- Crower on their shorter cams-Comp except for the XE---HL series etc
If I had to guess Howard is grinding Hughes cams- if Howard the Howards tend to be a little bigger area under the curve for the same duration
ie more acceleration- which can be good or not depending on how detailed you are about springs and valve geometry and all the other aspects of your build I would say Lunati is somewhere in the middle Bullet (not Ultradyne) also has a full line of Mopar Hyd lobes and also easy to deal with
I prefer a 3 bolt cam/gear

Thanks for the info! I got ahold of Chris at Engle and he had the actual Mopar grinds for me in a list. I also will go with the 3 bolt cam.

 

[91r/t]

Gutted!

 

[wyrmrider]

Thanks for the info! I got ahold of Chris at Engle and he had the actual Mopar grinds for me in a list. I also will go with the 3 bolt cam.

CAN YOU POST THE LIST

 

[91r/t]

I would have to type them all out. It is a handwritten list he fired off to me. I can do it later as I am at work at the moment

 

[Fran Blacker]

I would have to type them all out. It is a handwritten list he fired off to me. I can do it later as I am at work at the moment

Scan it or take a close up picture.

 

[91r/t]

Scan it or take a close up picture.

Yup I can type it up just gotta get outta work as it’s layin on my coffee table.

 

[rumblefish360]

I have two things to say about this;

1; If you call 5 cam companies with the exact same info and requests on what you want, you’ll get 5 different answers.

2: A wider (112) lsa will not have that lumpy muscle car idle everyone likes but power brakes are easier to operate with it.

Sure! You will leave some power on the table but, max power return cuts into drivability and overall happiness.

We all want the best bang for our buck. Sometimes, certain concessions have to be made. At 500 cubes, I don’t think you’ll be short on the run factor.

 

[wyrmrider]

god points rumble
you talk with 5 help line techs at the same company you will get 5 different answers
With a Engle MOPAR .904 cam
he can
run one size shorter seat duration than with a chevy cam with more under the curve
so
112 will not move the intake close point out of the comfort zone- long rod engines are more sensitive on ex open and intake close
his overlap will be less- as it should be for a long rod engine which have more piston dwell (movement per crank movement)
Contrary to frequent assertions Engle, the Crane .904s and others can have more acceleration and still be easier on the valve train These are not "race only when required by the rules" hydraulics
remember Engle and MP measure their seat duration around .008 so a 268 Engle or MP is more seat duration than a 268 Comp and a LOT more than a 268 Crane
As RRR says - drop back a notch

 

[91r/t]

I have two things to say about this;

1; If you call 5 cam companies with the exact same info and requests on what you want, you’ll get 5 different answers.

2: A wider (112) lsa will not have that lumpy muscle car idle everyone likes but power brakes are easier to operate with it.

Sure! You will leave some power on the table but, max power return cuts into drivability and overall happiness.

We all want the best bang for our buck. Sometimes, certain concessions have to be made. At 500 cubes, I don’t think you’ll be short on the run factor.

Yea I may go with a 110 to compromise.