I hate carburetors

[OH71RRunner]

I hate these things. It seems that no matter how much I try to read, I just cannot understand enough. If I had the money I'd go fuel injection.

Maybe I'm too stupid to figure it out. Or maybe I'm over thinking it. Either way, it doesn't click. I don't understand. I know the concept, but can't get it all put together. I've always had problems with adjusting or tuning. Always. And this thing is kicking my ***.
If I do get one thing that seems right, I've screwed something else up, sometimes several things. I've tried to start over from scratch several times only to be back in a similar spot... something not right.

Sorry. Needed to vent for a minute. I'll eventually get it set...by luck, not because I did it right.

 

[Kern Dog]

One thing that annoys me when I am having trouble is when some well meaning guy says....
Oh man, it is SO simple!
Not to ME, it isn't!
I have the habit of jumping into unknown situations with zero experience and either figuring it out or getting help to fix it. I do not give up and let the car WIN !
Carburetors are simple in function but can be complicated in design. Air bleeds, power valves, accelerator pumps, jets, metering rods....I know Holley carburetors to a small degree, not nearly as well as some members here do.
How about starting from the top....Car, engine, transmission, engine combination and what it is doing or not doing.
I promise that I will not be rude or tease you for asking a "dumb" question!

 

[OH71RRunner]

Nobody on here has ever been mean, rude, or anything but extremely helpful. No matter how stupid I felt asking any questions, everybody has been helpful and encouraged the questions.

Sometimes I just feel stupid working on this thing.

Every time somebody suggests something or gives me advice, something else goes wrong. It's not that they told me wrong, it's something I've done wrong in the process of correcting an issue.
I just found out recently that I had the wrong gaskets in it.
Sometimes it'll be lean, make a small adjustment then it'll be rich or won't run. I've almost blown it up a couple of times because of stupid mistakes.

I get frustrated with this car constantly. Long story. Just needed to vent a little. Haha

I'm gonna work on it more tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have it this time.
If not, I'll be on here looking for help on how to throw these carbs as far as possible. Haha

 

[cryplydog]

First off I would say to get a good book for your carb make. Maybe you don't have a decent carb to begin with and maybe you do? More often than not most have a carb that is to big for their application and it seems that there are to many carb/tuning professionals where ever you go for help. Right off hand I would highly recommend Don Goulds book on tuning to win, FBO Systems at www.4secondsflat.com. good luck and keep on.

 

[OH71RRunner]

First off I would say to get a good book for your carb make. Maybe you don't have a decent carb to begin with and maybe you do? More often than not most have a carb that is to big for their application and it seems that there are to many carb/tuning professionals where ever you go for help. Right off hand I would highly recommend Don Goulds book on tuning to win, FBO Systems at www.4secondsflat.com. good luck and keep on.

I have the Six Pack Handbook. And I've read more than I've cared too. Lol. It's just not coming together as I've read it should.

I don't think the carbs are the problem. It's the tuner: me. I've never had much luck with messing with carbs and me doing these is the equivalent of a kindergartener recreating the Sistine Chapel. Hahahaha

I'm close. I've been close for months though. Just frustrated is all.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to look into getting that.

 

[cryplydog]

You won't regret the small investment and although the six pack is kind of it's own animal so to speak the tuning standards still apply. Is your engine modified from the factory perameters?

 

[Zeppelin264]

I read about a carburetor in a history book once. I went EFI 3 years ago and will never look back.

 

[kiwigtx]

I read about a carburetor in a history book once. I went EFI 3 years ago and will never look back.

 

[dla4567]

Installing an O2 sensor made tuning sooooo much easier. Also switching from pump gas to race gas made tuning much easier as well, but fueling the car can be a bit of a pain. And in my opinion the six pack handbook is a terrible book.

 

[66Satellite47]

I have the Six Pack Handbook. And I've read more than I've cared too. Lol. It's just not coming together as I've read it should.

I don't think the carbs are the problem. It's the tuner: me. I've never had much luck with messing with carbs and me doing these is the equivalent of a kindergartener recreating the Sistine Chapel. Hahahaha

I'm close. I've been close for months though. Just frustrated is all.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to look into getting that.

6 Pak setups are different than most carbs. In the early '70's they were readily available & cheap as used parts because the drivebility was not real good. A few minor changes made dramatic improvements for me. Don't drill the end carb jet plates like Chrysler said, they must be reamed (chased that for 2 months). Stock end carb jet plates will generally run fine. Pulling out the end carb mixture screw plugs & adjusting them open 1/4 to 1/2 turn more than stock, using the idle speed screw under the baseplate to get a little more end carb contribution, make an amazing improvement. The center carb may want a size or two more jet & the shooter may need to go up one or two. Trying a couple of the different end carb vacuum springs can also help. This experience is based on the Edelbrock aluminum manifold, I never played with the iron version. My set of '70 carbs worked better than the '69's or '71's. No sure idea why. Other carbs like an AVS & spread bore Holley 650 have driven me nuts. If you get the concepts of how a carb works, you have a chance. Understand how each of the various systems of the carb work, they are all interwoven. A change in one system can produce a change in another system. Good luck.

 

[threewood]

I was looking at a six pack setup for my car recently and had sticker shock at how much those 2bbl carbs go for new! They are very proud of them, way more than a fuel injection kit.

Any issues I have ever had with carbs has been on old, used ones where adjustments never seemed to do much good, and this is single carb setups. I have never had the pleasure of working on a six pack setup. Are these new or old carbs? Have you considered having them professionally rebuilt? Best of luck and take a break when the frustration builds, come back later to get a fresh look at the problem.

 

[vintage chromoly]

How about telling us what carb and application you are trying to tune?

Also, what exactly are the problems you’re having?

 

[OH71RRunner]

440 .030 over
509 MP cam
727 3000 converter 3:91 rear
906 Stage III race ported heads
Plugs are NGK one step hotter recommended by the "Mopar guy" at Jegs. (The box is in the garage if part number is relevant)
Six pack setup
MSD 6AL
MSD pro billet distributor with black bushing. One silver light spring, one silver heavy spring
Initial timing is about 15.

I cannot get the car to run using base settings on carb (transition slot at square 1 1/2 turns out on adjuster screws.) I had to open up the throttle several full turns on the idle screw.
outboards are roughly 1/2 turn out. (1/2 turn out only needed small movements one way or other to set using finger over bleeds method)
66 center jets. 2 1/2 turns out on driver's side. 2 3/4 turns out on passenger side
Idle in park 1100 RPM
in neutral 850 RPM
in gear 700 RPM

I was having issues with vacuum. It would stop at 4"hg at WOT. I had the wrong gaskets. With 64 jets, pinging under medium-hard acceleration. Pinging is not heard since putting in 66 jets.

I'm gonna mess with it in a little bit and see if any improvements from yesterday.

 

[rumblefish360]

I hate these things. It seems that no matter how much I try to read, I just cannot understand enough. If I had the money I'd go fuel injection.

Maybe I'm too stupid to figure it out. Or maybe I'm over thinking it. Either way, it doesn't click. I don't understand. I know the concept, but can't get it all put together. I've always had problems with adjusting or tuning. Always. And this thing is kicking my ***.
If I do get one thing that seems right, I've screwed something else up, sometimes several things. I've tried to start over from scratch several times only to be back in a similar spot... something not right.

Sorry. Needed to vent for a minute. I'll eventually get it set...by luck, not because I did it right.

I totally get it. I think the first thing you don’t know about a carb is the definition! It reads something like:

Carburetor;

“A device that is designed to confuse and confound the tuner into a head spinning rage by constantly falling in and out of tune as the day continues on.”

And reading that you have three two barrels, well, this is just complicating things for you I think.

The cam is a Notoriously lumpy, low vacuum camp. Restart at square one, stock netting and get the idle screws in all of them equal.

The 02 sensor(s) are an excellent idea but also realize at idle with that big *** lumpy low vacuum cam there going to be impossible to read steady.

Best of luck to you. And remember, carbs are only perfect for a short window of time on the day you tune them and that’s it. By night fall or come the morning or mid day, there out of tune.

 

[OH71RRunner]

I know that I need a better cam. I know that new carbs or sending these out to be gone over and rebuilt properly are probably something that needs done. I just don't have the extra money right now to do what is needed. I've been trying to do what I can when I can.
I just want to be able to get the car out of the garage to drive it. I know I'll figure it out. My learning curve with carbs seems to be more like a long sweeping turn on an interstate. Once I understand and it sinks in, I'll look back and realize how complicated I was making it.

It'll get figured out. Having this forum and everybody's help (whether they know it or not) it'll come together or the actual issue will show up.

I just needed to rant and bitch to people that would understand my frustration. Lol

 

[oldbee]

A little food for thought. Never worked on a 6-pal myself,but, why the big diff in rpm between park& neutral? Only diff is frt pump moving fluid thru v.body. Are u sure u don’t have a vac.leak?

 

[slepr1]

I hate these things. It seems that no matter how much I try to read, I just cannot understand enough. If I had the money I'd go fuel injection.

Just wait till you have issues with EFI. Works great while it works. Once problems arise, which they will, you will love the simplicity of a carb.

 

[Xp29h]

I am no carb guru by any means. But, as I started trying to tune the ones I had, I quickly learned that if I adjust several things at once, I never learned what I did, what difference it made better or worse or sometimes, no changes at all. As you learn and work through things, make one adjustment / change at a time so you know what’s going on.

Good luck. Keep after it, you’ll get it!

 

[65wgn440]

I've always thought that you 6-pak guys were glutton's for punishment ! One carb is tough enough for me. Keep at it, Real Men Run Carbs !!

 

[beanhead]

One small thing that I'll add, is don't get hung up on what the 'base settings' are..I noticed you mentioned that. With your setup throw those out the window, it's likely going to need its own specific adjustments... There are so many variables with environmental conditions and modified engines you can't go by what someone else uses or most books even. Just try to give the engine what it wants