I think something's wrong with the Boeing 737 Max 8

[steve from staten island]

Ridiculous comments?
Unions are well known for things like leaving or placing foreign objects in products, such as beer cans welded into spaces in car bodies. Its been a tactic for decades.
If the unions hands were clean they would have flagged the procedures which allowed the skirting of rules regarding FOD during assembly or repair.
Iow the unions are just as much to blame as the company. Union guys left the stuff there and the company let it go and the union didn't protect their own members from being disciplined by the company for it so they had to be in on it. No agenda here only stating what could be the case.
As for an agenda you sound like you are defending the unionized employees (not union employees-they don't work for the union) without knowing facts.
My nieces husband was an A&P at TWA and he had some horror stories from shoddy and jerry rigged repairs done by mechanics and passed off. I get the same from a coworker who worked at AA.
Its not "on" but I stand by my statement.
EDIT
Who said there was nothing wrong with the 737 max? Not me. I said it was a training problem and lo and behold....turns out it was.

Bullshit. If your nieces husband saw these so called shoddy repairs wouldn't he have a legal if not moral obligation to turn it in to his superiors.
You want to blame the unionized mechanic and make it as if that mechanic is making the calls on repairs with nobody else involved.
No sane mechanic would risk his license doing a slip shod repair on a airplane, knowing dam well it could possible cause a disaster.
And no union would defend a person who deliberately did a poor or shoddy repair, putting the public at risk or worse
Its always the same with your kind, always looking for someone to blame because of something you dont like.

 

[Slap Stick]

You are so full of crap her eyes are brown. Go back and read what I said. I blamed both the unionized employees and management. The company for ordering it done and the mechanics for doing it and not blowing the whistle.
And then the union for not speaking out. Those things can get a mechanic fired. Shouldn't the union be taking steps to report them?
You sound like a union sympathizer who will do anything to protect a "brother". And before ya go any further I am a former IAM&AW member, steward, grievance and bargaining committee member.
I have seen how employees can sabotage things. It happens.
You won't admit it.

 

[Slap Stick]

To add and piggy back this Bro...for ya'll out there a little bit of information an the uses of weight and balance. There is an area know as the Aerodynamic Chord. It basically is a measured area comprising the forward and aft areas of the lifting part of the wing and aircraft. You have the forward limit and then the aft most limit measured in inches and then formulated in either a percent of or moments. The exact middle is know as the Mean Aerodynamic Chord. You then have a percentage forward or aft that is the safest settings for safe flight. It is a teeter tauter principle. The more aft the percentage, the more aft heavy the aircraft is thus creating a higher percentage from the Mean Aerodynamic Chord. Conversely the forward percentage dictates the Leading Edge of the Mean Aerodynamic Chord. MAC and LEMAC are a part of the formulas for balancing the aircraft. Then be moving the engines closer to the fuselage and the 737 being a swept wing low lift aircraft, it moves that window further forward resulting in a more aft distribution of weight to bring it into the acceptable numbers for balancing the aircraft. By adding a computerized system to handle the sudden nose down attitude you have just taken the Pilot out of the equation because of the human reaction to sudden changes in attitude being ignored in favor of the computer. All this is good in theory but in the end relies upon complete mechanization and computer control instead of the Pilot being in control. Personally I am not a big fan of all this new AI and computerization. A lot of it is by far very good and necessary for a controlled and safe flight. But dammit!!! When an IFE occurs, then the pilot must react physically and fly the aircraft via stick and rudder. All the Simulator training and practice of landings and take-offs dos help. But it is after all a flying machine and was built by human ingenuity and determination to where air travel is still one of the safest means of travel. As a Weight and Balance Clearance Authority, I had the responsibility to get that aircraft ready for a safe flight. It is a somewhat complex part of flying but when you understand how the basics of Aerodynamics , lift and thrust play in the whole event of flight, then when these types of crashes occur it is usually because of the whole aircraft being either nose heavy or aft heavy. As the saying goes...If you put a large enough engine and a computer on a brick, it will fly...cr8crshr/Bill

I think you misspoke. The "patch" made the aircraft pitch nose down when it detected a too high nose up attitude for the airspeed.
That's why they crashed. The plane was still flying but descending due to the faulty input.
That said we now hear pilots complained about this system. Where was their union? This is a serious safety problem. Then Boeing and the Federation Against Aviation seem to have looked the other way.

 

[cr8crshr]

I think you misspoke. The "patch" made the aircraft pitch nose down when it detected a too high nose up attitude for the airspeed.
That's why they crashed. The plane was still flying but descending due to the faulty input.
That said we now hear pilots complained about this system. Where was their union? This is a serious safety problem. Then Boeing and the Federation Against Aviation seem to have looked the other way.

I heard that also...cr8crshr/Bill

 

[steve from staten island]

You are so full of crap her eyes are brown. Go back and read what I said. I blamed both the unionized employees and management. The company for ordering it done and the mechanics for doing it and not blowing the whistle.
And then the union for not speaking out. Those things can get a mechanic fired. Shouldn't the union be taking steps to report them?
You sound like a union sympathizer who will do anything to protect a "brother". And before ya go any further I am a former IAM&AW member, steward, grievance and bargaining committee member.
I have seen how employees can sabotage things. It happens.
You won't admit it.

This isn't a problem with the jet. Its a problem with the Boeing line employees.
Iirc its close to union contract time so the union is putting their contract and the union ahead of safety and the company who pays their salary.

Remember that above post? You blamed the union Boeing employee for the problems with the plane.
You got called on it.
When your relatives husband observed and I quote "shoddy" repair, did he turn it in? I can only hope that "shoddy" repair did not put the passengers, crew on that plane in any danger. If so your relatives husband would be just as guilty as anyone associated with that repair.
If you knew as a actual fact that any employee unionized or not purposely and deliberately sabotaged and again I quote "things" and id have to ask you to be specific before you accuse anyone, and you in fact did nothing you should of been terminated with the other guilty parties.
In fact as a union representative makes it even worse as you are suppose to set the example to the other workers.
I also was a union rep, helped negotiate contracts and represented countless people in grievances.
My union(s) did not tolerate sabotage or vandalism of any kind.
I can only right now recall one story. We had a guy who around lunch time, waited in the shadows for a group of guys to take there lunch break. After they were gone he walked over to there work site and stole a brand new grinder.
In short the **** hit the fan and management decided to send a message to all the workers. What they did was open every locker in the locker room. It took some time as there were a lot of lockers but half way through they found the grinder laying in the guys locker. Not even wrapped up. It was proven this was the missing grinder and they wound up wanting to terminate the guy.
All I was able to do was ask them to let the guy resign, which they agreed to. Now if that one of many incidents sounds like we,I or my union protected thieves and dead beats, then I dont know what else to tell you
Sabotage, vandalism, knowingly doing a substandard job can cause lives to be lost, injuries, it can result in loss of services and cost the company huge amounts of money. I do not support and neither did the union(s) I belonged to that type of behavior .

 

[Cojohnso1]

I haven’t heard any official report? I just flew on a 737-800 not long ago. Definitely a step up from original 737. Which is the only plane I won't board. Yes I'm not the best flyer. (But not totally whacked either.) But the 737 spooked me twice in a row. Never had that bad of experience on any other ship.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I flew over the front range into Denver last April, in a 737-700, and encountered severe turbulence. Drinks were flying out of the cups, and the guy next to me was wearing my coffee. It sounded as if a giant sledgehammer was pounding the airframe, with each jolt of turbulence. Never experienced anything like it. Boeing has built an incredibly strong aircraft in the 737, and it has a great safety record. The recent problem with faulty attitude sensors, and/or the software, causing the computer to automatically alter the trim of the rear stabilizer, has resulted in a big black eye for Boeing. I don't think any of the employees wanted to see this happen. The biggest blunder, as I see it, was not training, or in most cases, not even telling the pilots about the new anti stall system. This was a decision made by the Boeing higher ups, with the FAA s stamp of approval. No one wanted to see this happen, but some should have seen it coming. Too bad no one said: "What happens if a sensor malfunctions?"

 

[Auggie56]

 

[Garys1969RR]

Video will now play on my phone

 

[DeltaV]

Dated yesterday and worth reading:

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...ystem-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/?amp=1

 

[69a100]

Guess who makes those jackscrews???????
Anybody?????? Bueller??????













Acme, that's who!

 

[super-bee_ski]

2 crashes of 2 brand new aircraft of a new design within 6 months? Virtually unheard of in the commercial aviation world.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ethio...ding-global-grief-to-families-in-35-countries

NO,
The recent crash, Ethiopa, the Co-Pilot had only 200 Flight hours
THAT, my friend is ABSURD.
The Pilots (In My Opinion) are not qualified and have NOT received appropriate training...
WHO Would fly an airline maintained by the Country of Ethiopia?
1. America flys MAX 8s (Currently on a No-Fly) and WE have not had any issues...
It is, in my opinion, NOT the Jet

PS: Any American FAA approved Right Seater (Co-Pilot) is required too have AT LEAST 1,500 Fit Hours to fly....
Not "200"

 

[69a100]

NO,
The recent crash, Ethiopa, the Co-Pilot had only 200 Flight hours
THAT, my friend is ABSURD.
PS: Any American FAA approved Right Seater (Co-Pilot) is required too have AT LEAST 1,500 Fit Hours to fly....
Not "200"

Then I have to wonder if the press messed up on the actual number of hours he/they really had, and it just slipped through the cracks???

 

[Garys1969RR]

Guess who makes those jackscrews???????
Anybody?????? Bueller??????

Ethiopia? No, China? Boeing? I don't think it's the jackscrew that"s at fault. It just did what the computer said to do. Bad sensor, combined with lack of training, and a possible design flaw that causes the jet to climb at too steep an angle, in certain situations. Pilots not knowing what to do to correct the situation.













Acme, that's who!

 

[Garys1969RR]

Oh, Acme? Really? Don't they also make the rockets that help Wile e coyote try and catch the RR? LOL

 

[patrick66]

Ok, kids, keep in mind that only the MAX-8 and -9 are affected, and are the only 737 aircraft grounded. ALL other 737 models are fine. The -700 and -800 models are NOT Boeing MAX aircraft.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Ok, kids, keep in mind that only the MAX-8 and -9 are affected, and are the only 737 aircraft grounded. ALL other 737 models are fine. The -700 and -800 models are NOT Boeing MAX aircraft.

OK thanks. I think I'll fly to Vegas on a 737 in April, and see the SPRING FLING MILLION drag races. They are the 15th to the 20th. Anybody here racing that week?

 

[Gone]

NO,
The recent crash, Ethiopa, the Co-Pilot had only 200 Flight hours
THAT, my friend is ABSURD.
The Pilots (In My Opinion) are not qualified and have NOT received appropriate training...
WHO Would fly an airline maintained by the Country of Ethiopia?
1. America flys MAX 8s (Currently on a No-Fly) and WE have not had any issues...
It is, in my opinion, NOT the Jet

PS: Any American FAA approved Right Seater (Co-Pilot) is required too have AT LEAST 1,500 Fit Hours to fly....
Not "200"

I think that the investigation will bear out the that failure of Boeing to conduct re-training for pilots based on a redesign of the aircraft and failure to account for the effect of those redesigns in the MCAS will be the main factors for the loss of the 2 aircraft.

 

[Dennis H]

World class aircraft. Shithole pilots. Shithole airlines.

 

[Gone]

World class aircraft. Shithole pilots. Shithole airlines.

Well, since you put it that way we can wrap up the investigation. We need you on our FAA crash investigation teams. You would save the taxpayer a lot of money!