If I were...

[Lefty71]

Sometimes I think I need a motor builders checklist for all that I've learned over the years. If I were smart enough to do every little thing I can think of while the motors still on the stand; torque this, seal and paint that, valve setup, yada, yada, yada, then why in the heck didnt I pick up the headers and see if they clear the head studs while they were just layin in the floor and the motor was still on the stand????

I had enough space to set them in, but no way would they bolt up, and that means no way was a gasket going in back there either. I decided to go back to bolts on the eight offenders, and I managed to do it in car, but it sure would have been a good idea to have a look-see ahead of time. Sometimes I wonder if a 440 doesnt actually give a little more room than a 383 in an A-body, since the headers bolt line would be a little higher than the fenderwells, as opposed to right in line with the curve.

/end rant Lefty71

 

[33 IMP]

Can i ask....whose headers wouldn't work with head studs?

 

[toolmanmike]

Sometimes I think I need a motor builders checklist for all that I've learned over the years. If I were smart enough to do every little thing I can think of while the motors still on the stand; torque this, seal and paint that, valve setup, yada, yada, yada, then why in the heck didnt I pick up the headers and see if they clear the head studs while they were just layin in the floor and the motor was still on the stand????

I had enough space to set them in, but no way would they bolt up, and that means no way was a gasket going in back there either. I decided to go back to bolts on the eight offenders, and I managed to do it in car, but it sure would have been a good idea to have a look-see ahead of time. Sometimes I wonder if a 440 doesnt actually give a little more room than a 383 in an A-body, since the headers bolt line would be a little higher than the fenderwells, as opposed to right in line with the curve.

/end rant Lefty71

Unscrew the studs, set the headers in place and screw the studs back in.

 

[Lefty71]

Can i ask....whose headers wouldn't work with head studs?

Well, good question. The headers are just peripheral items in this case, known to work in this car with this motor, and not so much specific for a build. The purpose here is to just try out a recently built motor using the drag car body as a test sled, then move the motor on to a more permanent use. So I've had these headers for quite a while and I'm not sure who's they are. But I do know they are 1-3/4" long tubes, and the bend structure looks an awful lot like these;

https://www.manciniracing.com/heelheb1b.html

The flanges are three seperate ones tho, and not one continuous flange. The motor is a 383, using factory iron heads, ARP head stud kit, and the flange is the issue. The flange is pretty thick, and the nature of the beast with iron heads puts the studs up pretty high. So after the fact I'm looking at some of the other items around the shop and came to this conclusion; my big tube TTI's with even thicker flanges would also be a big problem and if I was working with some of the aluminum heads with recessed bolt heads then I would likely have no problem. Maybe, a super cheapie header with very thin flanges might have slid into place on the iron head with studs, or maybe I could have cut down the studs, but my lament is that I gave it no real consideration, ahead of time. I really did not want to try cutting or grinding on the flanges, as they are already a problem point on many installs (warped leaky flanges).

 

[Lefty71]

Unscrew the studs, set the headers in place and screw the studs back in.

Guess I need to throw up a pic. Im talking about head studs, not header studs. The flanges hit the studs, regardless of install order. This put the header flange up too high to line up the bolts, and no gasket in place yet either. I put the bolts back in those eight locations (four per side), because thats the only way I could see to take the stud and its thick nut out of the equation. With just the bolt head, nothings in the way any longer.

 

[miller]

The few times I've messed with headers, I've always thought the norm, was to get the engine almost in. Setting a little higher, slip the headers in place, yes, on the studs, but leave 'em loose.
Once engine is mounted, tighten the headers down. Won't work for ya?

 

[Lefty71]

The few times I've messed with headers, I've always thought the norm, was to get the engine almost in. Setting a little higher, slip the headers in place, yes, on the studs, but leave 'em loose.
Once engine is mounted, tighten the headers down. Won't work for ya?

This is quite exactly what I do. Set the motor in, bolt up the trans and leave loose in the trans mount. Cherry pick the motor up until the trans is slammed pretty good up into the tunnel. Thats all the room I'm gonna get without dropping the trans back outta its mount ( which is not normally necessary). Then I put the headers and starter in, and drop it back down, mock up the mounts, level the engine and then tighten everything up. But this time, I tried a head stud kit on the engine and got this;

This isn't the best pic, and I already pulled the offending head studs and put the bolts back in, but you may be able to tell the amount of thread showing on the studs up outta the block was enough to prevent the header flange from dropping down far enough to start the header bolts, and that's without gaskets. Either way, moving on to the starter might be my next little snafu, but I do know next time I'll be smart enough to bolt together EVERYTHING that i can, motor, trans, exhaust, starter, ETC just to see what gives before having to deal with the car itself for as much insight as possible. All in all a good weekend, as progress was made towards the prize.

 

[miller]

Yaa...see what you mean. Some of those best laid plans.
You'll get it figured out. Got faith in ya, man!

 

[CudaChick1968]

We've all been there. At least once.

 

[Fran Blacker]

We've all been there. At least once.


View attachment 815961

Repeat as many times as necessary .

 

[Lefty71]

@CudaChick1968
If I find myself with a couple extra dollars over this coming winter,. I definitely see a little project you could help me out with on this motor.

 

[CudaChick1968]

Sounds great Lefty! The FAQ on my website is the best place to start short of calling me. I'll be around whenever you're ready!