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I'm going to slam college education.

Well my experience differs but it was a long time ago.
I received my MBA @ 21 years old after undergrad degrees
in Econ and Acct. I never held a job after that except for running
my own businesses. The purpose of my education in the Calif,
University System was specifically to prepare to be a business
owner (Initially Used Car Dealership Owner). I became a Millioniare
in my Twenties and in Eight Figures Ten or Fifteen years after that through
the ownership of multiple retail and private capital business.

I would not have succeeded without my training in business and if
I was not blessed to live in the USA the land of Opportunities!!
Even after multiple Cancer Surgeries and in my mid 70's = I often
put in 12 Hour long days.

I am not a particularly intelligent guy - But well educated and have a lot of
common sense.

I was always Focused and Motivated in Life and at the Race Track or preparing for both!!



Just my .02 worth = Your Mileage will Vary.

Google: John Irving Drag Racer
If you would like.
This right here shows you what a person CAN do with an education.
Most of us that send our kids to college envision this as a possible outcome, that our kid will use the education to reach his full potential.
It's a non sequitur to say that education makes a person dumb.
Like has been stated in some of the posts above, lack of a college degree disqualifies you from many jobs.
 
"If I have learned just one thing in life, it is that an education is what YOU, the student makes of it". This is the truest statement in this thread. We as a country are a joke and spend a lot of time importing our workers for jobs that require seriously bright people in many areas. As a country, we charge for an education like they're going to make half a million a year. You can go to school here to be a social worker and pay 65 thousand dollars to make 35 a year. In most cases the only person that makes out in the deal is the school. This is why we rank so low world wide, dollar for dollar. After these great career we get here, we export our work and import what we need. I have no idea how it ever works for most. My daughter knew from first grade on that the medical industry was the way to go for her. When she graduated from high school, with a 5.5 grade point average and 37 college credits she was punished for not having been in sports or a school activity, like band, cheerleading. She didn't get a full ride, two of her friend did, one had a 2.9 and got a full ride as a cheerleader and her other friend as a soccer player. The girl that was a soccer player never played in one game!! Both didn't make it and I paid to make sure my daughter did whatever it was she wanted. We both followed our hearts and the money. She became a CRNA and I went the other way and went to trade school. It does depend on YOU, not always the job. When I retired, I was 52 and my daughter will follow me. Life is about having fun too, so pick wisely, working till you fall over is not about loving your career, it's about not picking a the right path. Oh, for the record, school counselors should be the most important job in the system, not the principal, I have three friends that are principals and I won't give you $1.57 and a hot ham sandwich for anyone of them as far as a leader for our children. They spend most of their time massaging the system and playing the game, it's not a game........... or maybe it is about the game, soccer, football or maybe baseball. As far as my poor homely daughter that like studying over many things, she had a great time in school. This is my daughter getting ready to go to senior prom.
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Certain degrees are quite useful, such as engineering and medical. You are building/designing things. You're making sick people well.

Teaching degrees are highly over-rated these days. With all the crap taught in schools at all levels, many teachers are far OVER-paid, IMO. I used to teach aircrew for 16 years as a contractor, and ten years as active-duty. As the education system rotted from the inside over those 26 years, as each class of young airmen came through and the standards dropped, you could readily tell the lack of a quality education most of these kids received as it declined markedly from the late '80s through 2015. I'm so happy I don't do that anymore. It became quite depressing, really.

What is far under-rated in the hell that is the '20s, is trades. Electrical, HVAC, plumbing, carpentry, masonry, mechanic, grounds-keeping. All needed, and all dismissed by the college industry as somehow being beneath the requirements of being a contributing and productive member of society. Their view - "Hey, we have all of these "undocumented workers" out there, let them do it!!" Fact is, most of those aforementioned trades require a license in MOST states to be able to do business.
 
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Electrical, HVAC, plumbing, carpentry, masonry, mechanic, grounds-keeping. All needed, and all dismissed by the college industry as somehow being beneath the requirements of being a contributing and productive member of society. Their view - "Hey, we have all of these "undocumented workers" out there, let them do it!!" Fact is, most of those aforementioned trades require a license in MOST states to be able to do business.
X2, When my son went in to talk to the school counselors about a career, he said trade school, she said next! I had the counselor and the principal both for lunch!! It was a meeting that I made sure neither one ever forgot!!
 
I'm all for free education. Go learn something and teach it to others for free :)
 
I didn't seek higher education, mainly because I still haven't decided what I want to do with my life. :) And because I didn't do well in school. My attention span for subjects that didn't interest me was marginal, and my grades suffered for it. Having good teachers certainly helped; for example I got good grades in English 11, while the following year with a different teacher I ended up failing the class. Had to take night school to get my grade 12 diploma, and the night school teacher was a good one so my final grade was good as well.

But most of the practical education and job skills that I ended up putting to use during my life were due to apprenticeship. Working on the railroad opened up so many opportunities for learning many different skills, out of necessity. The other trades in the railroad - electricians, diesel mechanics, yard switchmen, locomotive engineers etc. were sort of specialized and that's what they did. But the guys like me that serviced the actual rolling stock were offered a much wider scope of learning. During different rotations of my apprenticeship, I learned woodwork. We had a fully operational woodmill with all sorts of different saws, cutters, shapers, sanding benches, we built everything from flooring to cabinets in there, including a lot of the furniture, cupboards, lockers and benches used in the actual shop. We had to be trained on the theory and operation of the air brake systems. I was trained both in the shop and in night school classes on how to weld, both stick and wire feed. And there is a lot of welding in the railroad industry for fabrication, repair, building up of worn components, and high pressure work on the aforementioned air brakes.

Then there was the fun stuff. We had a complete paint shop, and were trained on bodywork and painting, with a large variety of guns (mostly DevillBis). Repair work on passenger cars was up to quite picky standards, but I wanted freight car repairs to look good too. I spent time in the tin shop, although technically that was a different trade, but still learned about all their cutters, rollers for seams and beading, soldering and spot welding. We spent time learning upholstery work for the passenger car seating, as well as glazing work due to all the windows they had. Part of the apprenticeship involved one month each year going to a vocational school, but they didn't have an exact fit for our railroad requirements so they sent us to a steel fabrication class where I learned a great deal about shipbuilding that I never needed to know, but it was still fascinating. Those classes gave a good foundation for proper drafting skills, and finally I was able to see a practical application for higher math skills, as we used trigonometry and logarithms to figure out weird angles and square-to-round transitions. I didn't get the math in high school but suddenly it made sense and I was good at it. And doing that drafting work meant that my printing became much more neat and legible.

We had heated boxcars with alcohol burners and convection fluid piping through the floors, we had cars with high pressure nitrogen charged draft gears to cushion the blow when coupling, we had old cars with lots of wood, we had aluminum cars (had to learn aluminum welding as well), something seemingly simple like a plug door on the side of a freight car might have a complex series of gears and lever mechanisms to engage the locked position. I spent years as the fiberglass repair guy, nobody else seemed interested. Everything, everywhere was a learning process and it constantly changed with the years.

I've been retired from all that for nearly nine years, but every time I start a project with a car, around the yard or house, chances are I'm using some skill and knowledge that I originally learned from that railroad trade. They liked me there, I was good at figuring out problems, and I'm glad that I did that work.
 
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I went to college and got an engineering degree. That degree has been a requirement for the jobs I’ve had over the last 35 years, so it was worthwhile.
I do agree that with the exception of some majors like my engineering degree, college is over rated. And has become way overpriced. It seems that parents strive for their kids to go to college thinking it makes them better people and fit into a higher social class.
I have a niece who was a top performer at a very high rated high school, got a near perfect ACT, and involved in everything under the sun. The only reason neither she or any of her fellow top students from her high school class weren‘t accepted at any Ivy League schools was the fact those schools have quotas that make it near impossible for whites or Asians to get in now. But she did end up going to University of Chicago, then got a masters at Oxford in UK. My brother in law was a high earner so she didn’t qualify for grants or scholarships. They paid her full tuition and expenses for her education, which I’d hazard a guess added up to over $300K.
Her degrees were in something like Ancient Spanish literature and after graduation she got work as a copy editor. Her folks had to subsidize her living expenses for a while as she wasn’t making a big salary.
She‘s doing ok now, she married a successful automotive engineer and they are living in the Detroit area.:lol:
So did her expensive prestigious education qualify her to marry him? I’m trying to figure out what those degrees of hers were worth?
 
I agree with almost everything I read in the previous posts except the premise of rolling all colleges into a group to call attention to the down side of them. Yes, there are many schools that will waste your time and money teaching you about non-profits and useless public sector work.

I have an Associates, Bachelors (BBA) and MBA, so can possibly add to this discussion in a meaningful way. I also hire on occasion, so look at resumes to find suitable candidates to hire in the automotive based company I work for.

There are good schools out there that still teach individual responsibility & business free enterprise - critical thinking. I went to Northwood here in Michigan and one of my kids is there now as well. She has had a paying internship every summer and will have multiple 6 figure job offers next year when she completes her MBA. Hillsdale College is another fine school here, and there are others.

Having to have a BBA to be able to apply for jobs is changing. It used to be very strict, but now some college & work experience is seen as equivalent, and frankly I like to see a balance on a resume. Try not to throw all college under the "school' bus, some are still doing the job!
 
I have a thing against most public university’s anymore and their liberal woke BS. Anyone who invest a lot of debt and time pursuing a liberal arts type degree with hopes of supporting themselves and a family with a comfortable lifestyle probably could have benefited from some true adult counseling in their late teens. But, I still think a technical or scientific degree is worthwhile to pursue. Yes, I was lost on the purpose of a lot of my Civil Engineering courses and studies in school, but as I matured in a 45 year career of field supervising and field managing construction projects for the Corps of Engineers, a lot of it would come back to me as I encountered various design and construction issues that had to be resolved, corrected, or litigated. It was always interesting to watch Contracting and Legal people try to grasp engineering issues, language and concepts that were second nature to the engineers.
 
Back when you could work your way through college none of this was an issue. I guess owning sweet *** muscle cars still isn’t enough to keep people from being bitter old farts. Same complaints you have now people had about you. Was turning our backs on trade and other technical schools as an excellent path to rewarding career and a full life? It was absolutely a huge mistake. Community college now costs what a state school did 20 to 25 years ago but wages are stagnant. It just takes one step up in your thinking to realize that this is all part of a plan that’s been in the works now for 50+ years to destroy the wealth that the middle class at accumulated post World War II and to ensure that future generations would be free on paper but slaves in finance.
 
College degree or education of any level means absolutely nothing if you don't want to go to work. A person with a hard work ethic would run circles around the masters degree spoiled brats that think the world owes them something......no offence to anyone it's jmo.
 
What kind of job can you get with a Liberal Arts degree?
Also, have you noticed you are required to take a class in ethics? From what I see in both business and govt it aint workin!
My son went into the Navy straight from HS and became an avionics tech. Retired after 15 years (yes 15) and got a job in a steel mill as a low voltage tech making six figures (and there was NO union). Proof a degree is not needed.
 
I think the types of guys that do well in the military also do well in tech jobs in industry.
But just like college, not everyone does well in the military.
 
90% of the fresh out of high school kids are wasting their time and putting themselves and their parents in needless debt that will take decades to pay off. I pushed for my oldest children to go to college. The oldest one attended 1 semester at a local state university, became pregnant and is now a great mother Of 2, married to wonderful yongman. The next attended The state college racked up tens of thousands of dollars of debt as well as her mother and me. Graduated after 5 year because she wasn’t ready to be so far away from mom and dad. She worked a few **** jobs because she couldn’t find a job to use her “education”. She also became pregnant and is now another great mother of 2, also married the fine young man. But struggles to pay all the ******* school loans that have credit card type interest rates. Which her mother co-signed for so guess who pays those bills? You tell me which one has a brighter future??
When it came to the youngest I told him stay the **** out of college until you really figure out what you want to do. It’s not likely he’ll go to anything but a trade school or an apprenticeship anyway. But it won’t be a waste of money if he does go because he’ll use it.
Most people’s that are extremely “successful” are extremely driven or extremely lucky. F&#k college total waste.
 
I am 47 and through my years of school I wasnt overly pushed into college or advanced degrees. I do feel some systems push that a bit harder or maybe I was in between that phase.

I went to College then University for a few years and realized I really didnt know what I wanted to do and I was wasting money on trying to find it. My first day or so in an economics class at the University my econ professor told us flat out if you are going to college to make more money you are doing it wrong. The money you "lose" by not working full time, and moving up the ranks in the 4-5 years, plus the money you spent can almost NEVER be made back up. Of course a few professions that isnt the case.

I got a job in prison and have been here ever since. Worked my way up through promotions over 27 years so far about 7 or so more to go.

there are some jobs where advanced schooling is necessary, and not all those jobs will you make more money (again a few definitely will) - but if thats the field you want, makes you happy and provides a good home/work balance then so be it. Good for you and I am glad it all worked out.

However I have some friends that spent 50k plus on university and chalk that up to a good time spent and money well spent with their friends and partying they did :)
 
I am 47 and through my years of school I wasnt overly pushed into college or advanced degrees. I do feel some systems push that a bit harder or maybe I was in between that phase.

I went to College then University for a few years and realized I really didnt know what I wanted to do and I was wasting money on trying to find it. My first day or so in an economics class at the University my econ professor told us flat out if you are going to college to make more money you are doing it wrong. The money you "lose" by not working full time, and moving up the ranks in the 4-5 years, plus the money you spent can almost NEVER be made back up. Of course a few professions that isnt the case.

I got a job in prison and have been here ever since. Worked my way up through promotions over 27 years so far about 7 or so more to go.

there are some jobs where advanced schooling is necessary, and not all those jobs will you make more money (again a few definitely will) - but if thats the field you want, makes you happy and provides a good home/work balance then so be it. Good for you and I am glad it all worked out.

However I have some friends that spent 50k plus on university and chalk that up to a good time spent and money well spent with their friends and partying they did :)
Promotions?
Does that mean you are now allowed conjugal visits? :rofl:
 
I've been on all different sides of this debate from high school to present. Started college in 1971, mother pressuring me to be a doctor, father telling me it would help me find myself, it was basically free, dad's position as a faculty member at PSU got my tuition down to $200 a year in that era, and I lived at home. One year of pre-med, and I knew it wasn't for me, liked working on mechanical stuff more than dealing with chemical formulas. I was too hands on for my own good. But I wasn't about to waste the time I had already invested, switched to English (no money there), with a minor in environmental science. Paid off with a decent job in the wake of the 1973-74 recession, worked as a writer for a medical newspaper group, and saved enough money to pay for truck driving school. Two years of trucking and I was making 50% more than my college professor father.

Used the money to pay for law school, got my parents off my back, but graduated in the aftermath of the 1981-82 recession and couldn't get a salaried job, so I went back to truck driving to pay the rent. The circle went around again, and I ended up in a six figure general counsel gig. That ended, and once again I ended up driving a truck. You can do well with college, you can do well with trade school. As others have said, it's the other stuff you bring to the table that makes either one work in the end.

Perhaps the most valuable thing I gained from my undergraduate education was meeting my future wife in an English class.
 
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Nobody's going to give you a full-blown job as an engineer without a degree. That's why I paid for and encouraged my son to get his BS in Mechanical Engineering. Now he has his first real engineering job with a great salary
I am assuming you are adressing my post above. I think you missed my point, for ME, sitting in a bunch of classes to flex my mental muscle felt like a waste of time, but I didn't say engineering school is a waste of time at all. There's a lot of backstory that I won't bore everyone with here, but suffice to say, after nearly 4 years of fighting the fight, I was done. I finished college with a BS degree suma cum laude, and went on to work on a master's in education because it would advance my then career in voc ed. I now work for one of the big three and found there is a niche guys like me and my coworkers fill.
What your son has achieved is incredible and I don't want to come off in my previous post as degrading or dismissing his or other engineer's accomplishment. The world needs talented engineers that think outside the box. Congrats to him and you.
 
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