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Intake manifold question (With pic)

fmontez1

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Hello all,

I have an old Holley dominator intake, and I'm having a hell of a time getting the old steel plug out of it for my temperature probe (Universal 3 gauge kit from summit)

I have a couple of ideas on how to get it out, but I just wanted to ask, the upper plug in this pic, thats just for air/fuel, right? It wouldn't be where I'd put the temp probe, would it?

http://i.imgur.com/a01qZhk.jpg

I only ask because I can't tell what temp my motor's running at, I'm going to get the stock gauges looked at next weekend, but I just got her running, and would love to break her in a little.

Thanks all!
 
You want the port to the right of the thermo housing, but i thought the holley used the left side port above the crossover section right above the heads port on the intake

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Ah i forgot, take the torch and heat the plug, heat the plug until it just about goes red, then toss the T wrench in and turn it out

the uper port in the runner would be for vacuum or similar
 
hahah the other side is even worse.

http://i.imgur.com/0uOOYkf.jpg

I'm not gonna mess with it. I'm going to either fix my stock gauge, or I'm going to buy an aftermarket electronic temp gauge that hooks up to the stock sender. They do sell those, yes?
 
When attempting to remove something from a hole...be it a plug, ball joint, bolt, etc., you want to heat what it is inserted into and not the item itself. Heat makes things expand. Heat will make the plug slightly larger...or the hole slightly larger depending on where your flame is hitting.
 
When attempting to remove something from a hole...be it a plug, ball joint, bolt, etc., you want to heat what it is inserted into and not the item itself. Heat makes things expand. Heat will make the plug slightly larger...or the hole slightly larger depending on where your flame is hitting.

Very true ... but not too much heat on an aluminum manifold ... bad things can happen ... which I learned the hard way (Big torch, too close, too long, new hole)
 
When attempting to remove something from a hole...be it a plug, ball joint, bolt, etc., you want to heat what it is inserted into and not the item itself. Heat makes things expand. Heat will make the plug slightly larger...or the hole slightly larger depending on where your flame is hitting.
True, but aluminum grows at a much higher rate then steel. I'd heat it and see what happens, this trick usually works better on aluminum than most because of that but also causes it to gull easily. Good luck
 
I think I have a heat gun I can dig up somewhere. I really would rather keep the intake on the car.

I was gonna try and weld a piece of bar to the plug, and turn it that way, but it would probably break too. Worth a shot though.

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True, but aluminum grows at a much higher rate then steel. I'd heat it and see what happens, this trick usually works better on aluminum than most because of that but also causes it to gull easily. Good luck

What is gulling? Cause it to gull?
 
When you heat the material around a hole, it hole will actually get smaller because the material around the hole expands and grows. The hole has no where to go but get smaller. You have to heat a large area of the intake before the hole will actually get larger. If you heat the plug, it'll usually expand and crush whatever corrosion that's in the threads. This is what makes them come out easier. Another thing that you can do it place an ice cube on the plug right after you remove the heat and sometimes that will make it easier to get out too. Another option is to drill the center of the plug out. This will sometimes 'relax' the pressure the plug has on the threads then use an easy out to remove it. When I was still working as a machinist, I was the go to guy for this kind of stuff for years.....and I hated doing it but it was kinda cool when you see the look on someone's face that was about to can the part but it got saved.
 
When you heat the material around a hole, it hole will actually get smaller because the material around the hole expands and grows. The hole has no where to go but get smaller. You have to heat a large area of the intake before the hole will actually get larger. If you heat the plug, it'll usually expand and crush whatever corrosion that's in the threads. This is what makes them come out easier. Another thing that you can do it place an ice cube on the plug right after you remove the heat and sometimes that will make it easier to get out too. Another option is to drill the center of the plug out. This will sometimes 'relax' the pressure the plug has on the threads then use an easy out to remove it. When I was still working as a machinist, I was the go to guy for this kind of stuff for years.....and I hated doing it but it was kinda cool when you see the look on someone's face that was about to can the part but it got saved.


Come to think of it, this makes sense. If the aluminum gets fatter, the hole gets smaller. Once I visualized it, I saw it.

I still think I'm going to try the welding trick, and if that doesn't work, then I'll take off the manifold and use an extractor.
 
Weld a bolt to the plug can work too and the welding process will heat up the plug and after cooling, may come out pretty easily. You just need to be able to get a good weld on it. Just make sure you have no gas vapor floating around. If you have a heavy heat blanket, use it or a wet cotton one will work too. I also like to have a garden hose handy. I've had a couple of fires in my 44 years of messing with cars lol
 
Weld a bolt to the plug can work too and the welding process will heat up the plug and after cooling, may come out pretty easily. You just need to be able to get a good weld on it. Just make sure you have no gas vapor floating around. If you have a heavy heat blanket, use it or a wet cotton one will work too. I also like to have a garden hose handy. I've had a couple of fires in my 44 years of messing with cars lol


hahah oh yeah. . . scariest moment in my coronet ever, busted a motor mount, and the block moved enough to puncture my oil filter, and spray oil all over my headers.

Instant fire. Luckily it went out with a wet towel. Fire extinguisher and proper training from then on!
 
What is gulling? Cause it to gull?

The correct term is: Galling, It happens most often in stainless steel threaded components, here is some information on the subject.

Thread Galling


Thread galling is a common, yet seldom understood problem with threaded fasteners. Galling, often
referred to as a cold-welding process, can occur when the surfaces of male and female threads are placed
under heavy pressure. The frustrating aspect of fastener galling is that galled nuts and bolts may pass all
required inspections (threads, material, mechanical, etc.), yet they still fail to function together.

Stainless steel fasteners are particularly susceptible to thread galling, although it also occurs in other alloys
that self-generate an oxide surface film, such as aluminum and titanium. During the tightening of the
fastener, pressure builds between the contacting thread surfaces and breaks down the protective oxide
coatings. With the absence of the oxide coating, the metal high points of the threads are exposed to one
another, which increases friction. The combination of these two events can generate enough heat to fuse
and seize the nut and bolt together.

Minor galling may cause only slight damage to the thread surface and the installer may still be able to
remove the fastener. However, in severe cases galling can completely weld the nut and bolt together and
prevent removal of the fastener. If the tightening process is continued once galling begins, the fastener
may be twisted off or have its threads stripped.
Unfortunately, even with an understanding of the mechanism of galling, little is known on how to
successfully control it. However, galling can be minimized with the following measures:
• Thread lubrication is one of the most effective measures to decrease the potential for galling. The
lubricant reduces friction, which is a key element in thread galling. Certain environments preclude the
use of some lubricants (such as stainless steel fasteners used in food processing equipment). Also, the
operator must be aware that the torque-tension relationship will be altered with the use of lubrication.
There are some outstanding PTFE based coatings that can be applied to stainless steel fasteners.
They are able to drastically reduce the frictional coefficient. Fastenal has performed extensive
research and testing and found a number of coatings that significantly reduce the galling potential.
For further information on these coatings, please contact the Fastenal Engineering and Design
Support group.

• Use coarse threads with a 2A-2B fit instead of fine threads. Coarse
threads have a larger thread allowance and are more tolerant to abuse
during handling.

• Heat contributes significantly to thread galling. Fastener installation
alone generates friction and therefore heat. An increase in speed
during installation increases the friction (heat) between the threads.
Lowering the wrench speed during installation and removal can help
avoid galling.

• Avoid prevailing torque locknuts. Prevailing torque locknuts function by adding resistance to the
threads, which in turn creates friction and heat. If a prevailing torque locknut must be used, ensure a
minimal amount of threads are protruding beyond the nut. The most common stainless steel galling
issue occurs with nylon insert lock nuts. The added friction that the nylon insert produces between
the mating threads increases the potential for galling significantly. As a precaution, Fastenal typically
adds a wax coating to stainless steel nylon insert locknuts nuts to reduce the friction. Although wax is
a good lubricant it is affected by heat and can dissipate over time.

• Mating parts of the same alloy have a greater tendency to gall than those of dissimilar alloys.
However, not all combinations of stainless steel act the same. For instance, a 400 series stainless steel
nut can work well on a 316 series bolt, but this will cause a reduction in the overall corrosion
resistance of the assembly.

• A smoother surface texture will lead to less frictional resistance. Rolled threads usually offer smoother
surfaces than cut threads. As previously mentioned, friction increases the possibility of galling.

• Proper installation torque. If the fastener is over tightened, the threads can begin to yield which will
induce friction between the mating surfaces.

http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Galling.pdf
 
The correct term is: Galling, It happens most often in stainless steel threaded components, here is some information on the subject.

Thread Galling


Thread galling is a common, yet seldom understood problem with threaded fasteners. Galling, often
referred to as a cold-welding process, can occur when the surfaces of male and female threads are placed
under heavy pressure. The frustrating aspect of fastener galling is that galled nuts and bolts may pass all
required inspections (threads, material, mechanical, etc.), yet they still fail to function together.

Stainless steel fasteners are particularly susceptible to thread galling, although it also occurs in other alloys
that self-generate an oxide surface film, such as aluminum and titanium. During the tightening of the
fastener, pressure builds between the contacting thread surfaces and breaks down the protective oxide
coatings. With the absence of the oxide coating, the metal high points of the threads are exposed to one
another, which increases friction. The combination of these two events can generate enough heat to fuse
and seize the nut and bolt together.

Minor galling may cause only slight damage to the thread surface and the installer may still be able to
remove the fastener. However, in severe cases galling can completely weld the nut and bolt together and
prevent removal of the fastener. If the tightening process is continued once galling begins, the fastener
may be twisted off or have its threads stripped.
Unfortunately, even with an understanding of the mechanism of galling, little is known on how to
successfully control it. However, galling can be minimized with the following measures:
• Thread lubrication is one of the most effective measures to decrease the potential for galling. The
lubricant reduces friction, which is a key element in thread galling. Certain environments preclude the
use of some lubricants (such as stainless steel fasteners used in food processing equipment). Also, the
operator must be aware that the torque-tension relationship will be altered with the use of lubrication.
There are some outstanding PTFE based coatings that can be applied to stainless steel fasteners.
They are able to drastically reduce the frictional coefficient. Fastenal has performed extensive
research and testing and found a number of coatings that significantly reduce the galling potential.
For further information on these coatings, please contact the Fastenal Engineering and Design
Support group.

• Use coarse threads with a 2A-2B fit instead of fine threads. Coarse
threads have a larger thread allowance and are more tolerant to abuse
during handling.

• Heat contributes significantly to thread galling. Fastener installation
alone generates friction and therefore heat. An increase in speed
during installation increases the friction (heat) between the threads.
Lowering the wrench speed during installation and removal can help
avoid galling.

• Avoid prevailing torque locknuts. Prevailing torque locknuts function by adding resistance to the
threads, which in turn creates friction and heat. If a prevailing torque locknut must be used, ensure a
minimal amount of threads are protruding beyond the nut. The most common stainless steel galling
issue occurs with nylon insert lock nuts. The added friction that the nylon insert produces between
the mating threads increases the potential for galling significantly. As a precaution, Fastenal typically
adds a wax coating to stainless steel nylon insert locknuts nuts to reduce the friction. Although wax is
a good lubricant it is affected by heat and can dissipate over time.

• Mating parts of the same alloy have a greater tendency to gall than those of dissimilar alloys.
However, not all combinations of stainless steel act the same. For instance, a 400 series stainless steel
nut can work well on a 316 series bolt, but this will cause a reduction in the overall corrosion
resistance of the assembly.

• A smoother surface texture will lead to less frictional resistance. Rolled threads usually offer smoother
surfaces than cut threads. As previously mentioned, friction increases the possibility of galling.

• Proper installation torque. If the fastener is over tightened, the threads can begin to yield which will
induce friction between the mating surfaces.

http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Galling.pdf


Got it! Thanks for the info. . . . Wish somebody had put Anti Seize in the plug before installing.
 
set a nut on the plug and arc weld when cool remove with a socket
 
Weld a bolt to the plug can work too and the welding process will heat up the plug and after cooling, may come out pretty easily. You just need to be able to get a good weld on it. Just make sure you have no gas vapor floating around. If you have a heavy heat blanket, use it or a wet cotton one will work too. I also like to have a garden hose handy. I've had a couple of fires in my 44 years of messing with cars lol

Sorry, crank, dont mean to disagree, but that's not correct. Things expand away from their center of mass and contract toward it. If you heat the plug, it will expand. If you heat the intake around the port the metal will expand away from the center, thus enlarging the hole.
 
First things first: Put a proper bracket on the throttle return spring. Then, go to NAPA and buy a can of 'Fluid Film'. It's a new product and works better than anything else I've ever used in 50+ years working on cars. Spray the plug and area so the film runs into the thread area. Then tap the top of the plug with a hammer to set up a vibration. Go get a beer and let it sit a while. Use your hex key with a 'helper' extension and tighten first, then loosen. No welding near the carburetor and no fire danger. Good luck to you...
 
I get a lot of old nasty manifolds in here and always coat the fittings and accessories separately for a cleaner look and painless re-installation.

That heat gun you have in mind isn't going to get hot enough. You need a torch. I scanned the replies but didn't see my 'old school' method listed.

Get an old nasty taper / stick candle your lady doesn't use anymore and keep it out in the shop. When your metal gets hot, press the candle to the top of the fitting and let the wax melt onto the threads. Heat it up with the torch again to melt it some more (so the wax leaches into the threads) and see if you can break the fitting loose. If it doesn't, heat it up and apply the candle again. It'll work. Trust me. :D
 
Never heard of that but I can say I've had plenty of success with the welding trick I just use a big nut, preferably a half nut. Half nuts (half as thick) work better because your not trying to weld down in a deep hole. Like cranky I'm doing these things often at work and different things take different approach's, I've also had allot of luck drilling the centers out as he mentioned. As far as penetrating oils go "I'm not to impressed" usually if I can't get it out with something it ain't coming out with some oil but maybe there is something out there that works "what do I know".
 
First things first: Put a proper bracket on the throttle return spring. Then, go to NAPA and buy a can of 'Fluid Film'.

fluid film is the sh*t!! i've seen 20 year old rusty-*** nuts/bolts on a snow plow get busted free with that stuff. i almost couldn't believe mine eyes!!

fluid film.jpeg
 
I get a lot of old nasty manifolds in here and always coat the fittings and accessories separately for a cleaner look and painless re-installation.

That heat gun you have in mind isn't going to get hot enough. You need a torch. I scanned the replies but didn't see my 'old school' method listed.

Get an old nasty taper / stick candle your lady doesn't use anymore and keep it out in the shop. When your metal gets hot, press the candle to the top of the fitting and let the wax melt onto the threads. Heat it up with the torch again to melt it some more (so the wax leaches into the threads) and see if you can break the fitting loose. If it doesn't, heat it up and apply the candle again. It'll work. Trust me. :D


I've heard this one, if anything, it's the most ingenious one.

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fluid film is the sh*t!! i've seen 20 year old rusty-*** nuts/bolts on a snow plow get busted free with that stuff. i almost couldn't believe mine eyes!!

View attachment 123199


Hmm. Interesting. Pb blaster wasn't enough after a couple days. This may need to go in the tool bag.

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First things first: Put a proper bracket on the throttle return spring.

So, this is a 318 with a Holley intake and double pumper carb. Should I get a different bracket? I may have the 2 barrell one somewhere.

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Picking up one of these, yes? Sorry, such a rookie with this.http://www.mrmoparts.net/throttle-spring-bracket-67-73-318-360-4-barrel/
 
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