Leaving Power on the Table, 440

[BSB67]

I had a 5800rpm governor in it but had issues with the upshift in manual. Found out it wasn't compatible with the valve body.

Hmmmm.

Is that problem fixed?

 

[threewood]

Y

Hmmmm.

Is that problem fixed?

Yea, I put the stock governor back in. No problems now. 1-2 auto shift is lower than the 2-3

 

[BSB67]

Y

Yea, I put the stock governor back in. No problems now.

I’m not a tranny expert, but that does not sound right to me.

You can get your tranny to automatically shift at the WOT rpm you want in both shifts. It is a multi step process and you’ll be under the car at least a few times as it is a trial and error to dial it in. Maybe a new thread if you are interested.

 

[threewood]

I’m not a tranny expert, but that does not sound right to me.

You can get your tranny to automatically shift at the WOT rpm you want in both shifts. It is a multi step process and you’ll be under the car at least a few times as it is a trial and error to dial it in. Maybe a new thread if you are interested.

I've rebuilt a few. The 1-2 is controlled by a spring in the valve body. I haven't tried swapping springs.

 

[BSB67]

I've rebuilt a few. The 1-2 is controlled by a spring in the valve body. I haven't tried swapping springs.

The 1-2 shift valve spring needs to be stiffer. Rick Allison has springs but they were too stiff for mine. I ordered a handful of springs from Lee Springs. You need to start by getting the 2-3 shift where you want it first with the governor. The easiest way is to take weight out of the inner weight.

 

[not so famous bob]

So I have been looking at my combo and thinking about getting a new cam with a bit more duration but was wondering if that is my bottleneck for more power. Not too woried about street manners and would like something a bit more lumpy at idle. I do intend to race a bit at the track in Roswell, which is 3573 elevation.

Here is what I currently have...
440 block, .040" over, stock stroke
Forged crank
KB 237 pistons zero deck
FelPro head gaskets .039" compressed
Stealth Heads, CNC ported (Intake 311cfm @.550 lift / exhaust 210cfm @ .550" lift)
Hughes 1.5 Rocker arms
Holley Sniper EFI 550 (650 max HP)
Holley Street Dominator single plane intake
1 7/8" long tube headers into 2.5" exhaust
Pertronix Ignitor III
Cam - Hughes STL3842BS solid lifter, 105* centerline, Duration at .050" 238* / 242*, Lift .558" I / .564" E
PTC 9.5" torque converter
3.55 rear end ratio on 275/65 R15 tires

Air in, air out right? I like the cam but the engine seems to top out a little over 5700 rpms, which is where the cam power band ends. I was thinking a similar cam with more duration to bump the power up into the 5900 - 6000 rpm range. Car has plenty of power down low as it sits. But am I hitting a road block with the intake or the headers or even the heads?

Best 1/4 and E.T at 3573 elevation was a 13.15 @ 106.81

Looking at the Hughes STL4650BS, centerline 104*, duration at .050" 246* / 250*, Lift .576 I / .588" E. I would be able to keep my springs as the specs are identical as to pressure. And I want to stay with solid lifter. I'm not interested in going roller.

Thanks!

victor intake , 2" headers , 1/6 rockers would have about the same effect of the cam you picked out .. jmo

 

[threewood]

victor intake , 2" headers , 1/6 rockers would have about the same effect of the cam you picked out .. jmo

That's about $2000 worth of parts. Cam and lifters would be cheaper to do. I'm still on the fence on the cam swap.

 

[dvw]

Here's what I've gathered. You're at altitude of about 3500ft. The actual compression ratio is between 9.9-1 and 10.3-1 depending on if it's early 84CC or later 80 cc Stealth heads. Or if they've been milled. Either way at higher altitudes, fairly big cam, low compression is taking away power. If it has sticky M/T's it should hook. You don't mention if they are street radials or something else. I don't see 265's in M/T's line up. Car doesn't appear to spin much if at all in the video. First thing you need to do is use the tach. That motor will like close to +/-6000 rpm shift. In the video it wasn't close. Second it needs to hook. It may need better tires to do that. No trailer? Spare set and a floor jack. Or get something for minimal street use. Make sure it's tuned. Decent A/F and timing
(35? total). It would like more gear. The biggest improvement in the motor in my opinion would be more compression. Especailly at your altitude. Until you are at this point anything new parts are not a wise choice. Rocker arms, big headers, etc. I honestly think with proper shift points, tune, and traction it'll get into the mid 12's as is. 4500ft D/A is probably close to 9.5% power killer over dyno air. So we're talking close to 50hp. Compression and gear will help overcome that.
Doug

 

[threewood]

Here's what I've gathered. You're at altitude of about 3500ft. The actual compression ratio is between 9.9-1 and 10.3-1 depending on if it's early 84CC or later 80 cc Stealth heads. Or if they've been milled. Either way at higher altitudes, fairly big cam, low compression is taking away power. If it has sticky M/T's it should hook. You don't mention if they are street radials or something else. I don't see 265's in M/T's line up. Car doesn't appear to spin much if at all in the video. First thing you need to do is use the tach. That motor will like close to +/-6000 rpm shift. In the video it wasn't close. Second it needs to hook. It may need better tires to do that. No trailer? Spare set and a floor jack. Or get something for minimal street use. Make sure it's tuned. Decent A/F and timing
(35? total). It would like more gear. The biggest improvement in the motor in my opinion would be more compression. Especailly at your altitude. Until you are at this point anything new parts are not a wise choice. Rocker arms, big headers, etc. I honestly think with proper shift points, tune, and traction it'll get into the mid 12's as is. 4500ft D/A is probably close to 9.5% power killer over dyno air. So we're talking close to 50hp. Compression and gear will help overcome that.
Doug

Heads were purchased 2017, not milled. Tires are M/T ET DOT rated street slicks. 275/65R15. 37 degrees total timing. Initial is at 21 degrees. Light springs brings total in around 2200 rpms. Any more timing and it pings on 91 premium gas.

Milling heads would be the easiest option. I'm looking for 3.73 gears but I haven't had luck on in stock sets.

 

[dvw]

Heads were purchased 2017, not milled. Tires are M/T ET DOT rated street slicks. 275/65R15. 37 degrees total timing. Initial is at 21 degrees. Light springs brings total in around 2200 rpms. Any more timing and it pings on 91 premium gas.

Milling heads would be the easiest option. I'm looking for 3.73 gears but I haven't had luck on in stock sets.

Those tires should work. Are they radial or bias? Radials start at 19psi. Bias start around 15psi. I'm assuming standard street shocks.
Doug

 

[threewood]

Those tires should work. Are they radial or bias? Radials start at 19psi. Bias start around 15psi. I'm assuming standard street shocks.
Doug

Radials. I'll definitely try a lower air pressure. Standard street shocks, Bilstein. I have a sway bar I'll unhook as well.

 

[BSB67]

I'm repeating myself. Your car will go deep into the 12s with practice and tuning. I just don't want that message to get lost in my following statements.

After you get to mid 12s and are ready to get into the motor to get to the next level, cam and compression like dvw stated. Your 150 psi is marginal, IMO, and will get worse with a bigger cam. More compression and a slightly larger cam will give a meaningful performance step change IMO. Your current induction and exhaust will support the cam and compression increase.

But here is the real reason for this post: Your statement about detonation at 150 psi. This seems odd to me. I run 195 psi but with 93 octane. My motor is different enough from yours, and not all gas is created equal even with the the same octane rating, so I really cannot speak with confidence in this.

I ask others: With 91 octane fuel, what cylinder pressure have you had success?

This might be a clue as to what else you can be looking for in your tuning.

 

[threewood]

Next opportunity to go to the track is next month. Last session they couldn't get the tree to work and pushed back the bracket event to 7/14 and 7/15. And they are not open every weekend.

More compression is an option to try. I may order a set of Cometic gaskets that are thinner. $100 a piece, yikes! They do sell Sunoco 100 gas at the track that I can mix in.

 

[threewood]

8/12/23 - There is an event tonight at Roswell. Overcast so far today so temps are hovering just under 100 degrees. I mounted my MT ET SS tires. 20lbs psi.

I'll run in drive to start as I want to see if the full 3" exhaust made a difference. Then I will make some runs in manual shifting at 5900 rpms and compare.

And it's sprinkling now... :/

 

[threewood]

Well that was a bust. 1/8 mile no prep. No traction whatsoever. Burnout, no burnout. And I got told twice I'm passing fuel on the track from my gas filler cap lol. Guess I need a better gasket.

 

[threewood]

Last run, spinning and manually shifting.

 

[justcruisin]

I think you have potential to run a lot quicker, you have better flowing heads than I do. I have a similar combo and was running about what you are. I swapped out my street tires and 3.23's for drag radials and a 4.10 gear, went to a 1.6 ratio arm, DA shocks on 4 corners and a little head work myself and had a backcut put on the intake valves.
440/448ci, edelbrock rpm heads and intake, 850 quick fuel, XE282S, 1 7/8" headers, 2.5" exhaust dynomax welded mufflers, 727 11" converter. 4.1:1 gear. 3900lbs all up. Looking at a converter upgrade and open pipes with header extensions in the progression to lower ET's.

 

[69sunfireGTX]

I think you have potential to run a lot quicker, you have better flowing heads than I do. I have a similar combo and was running about what you are. I swapped out my street tires and 3.23's for drag radials and a 4.10 gear, went to a 1.6 ratio arm, DA shocks on 4 corners and a little head work myself and had a backcut put on the intake valves.
440/448ci, edelbrock rpm heads and intake, 850 quick fuel, XE282S, 1 7/8" headers, 2.5" exhaust dynomax welded mufflers, 727 11" converter. 4.1:1 gear. 3900lbs all up. Looking at a converter upgrade and open pipes with header extensions in the progression to lower ET's.

View attachment 1512142

Hmmm. With a combo like yours you would think that you could run better than 17.094

 

[justcruisin]

Yep, it should do, I recon the car has the balls to sneak into the 16 second zone under the right conditions though.