Lets talk about roller cams for stroked big blocks!

[Curiousyellow71]

Maybe someone mentioned it but for surviving on the street we are trying a custom bullet hydraulic roller cam with pressure fed solid roller lifters. The cam has minimal lash ramps and we are running I think .009 for lash. The idea is the tight lash won't beat up the rollers on the street. It also not as agressive as what you would see for a typical solid roller for the street and because of that we aren't running as much spring pressure. As far as idling we have pressure fed needle bearing lifters. I often say "we" but its my brothers (@Dodge Bros) it has .635 lift and you really can't hear the cam or valve train at all. It's incredibly quite. He may have tried pressure fed bushing style lifters but this was a more affordable option and about the time we were considering going w the bushing style a friend had some expensive bushed crowers lifters fail on his street car..but it was a simple fix and it didn't trash the engine.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Maybe someone mentioned it but for surviving on the street we are trying a custom bullet hydraulic roller cam with pressure fed solid roller lifters. The cam has no lash ramps and we are running I think .009 for lash. The idea is the tight lash won't beat up the rollers on the street. It also not as agressive as what you would see for a typical solid roller for the street and because of that we aren't running as much spring pressure. As far as idling we have pressure fed needle bearing lifters. I often say "we" but its my brothers (@Dodge Bros) it has .635 lift and you really can't hear the cam or valve train at all. It's incredibly quite. He may have tried pressure fed bushing style lifters but this was a more affordable option and about the time we were considering going w the bushing style a friend had some expensive bushed crowers lifters fail on his street car..but it was a simple fix and it didn't trash the engine.

That sounds so much like exactly what I'd like, but I'm going to go on with what has been speccd for my 572 BMP bushed lifter bore aluminum block.
The springs will be the ones that come with the TF270s for up to .700" lift cams. Cam lift is .635. The lifters he says are made by Howards, but the part number is bushed CompCams 96829B Sportsman solid rollers with EDM oiling. This video shows them in a factory block no lifter bushings:

 

[Curiousyellow71]

That sounds so much like exactly what I'd like, but I'm going to go on with what has been speccd for my 572 BMP bushed lifter bore aluminum block.
The springs will be the ones that come with the TF270s for up to .700" lift cams. Cam lift is .635. The lifters he says are made by Howards, but the part number is bushed CompCams 96829B Sportsman solid rollers with EDM oiling. This video shows them in a factory block no lifter bushings:

Nothing wrong with those choices but on the street you may want to consider putting those lifters on a hydraulic roller vs a street solid roller if your driving the crap out of it. The street solid roller runs lash where the hydraulic roller you can run zero lash. The cams are both billet and cost the same and there isn't much of a power loss but there should be a dependability increase(we think).. Also getting a custom ground roller cam costs very little more. Bullet ground the one we are running. So far we love it. Bullet has it ground for either solid or hydr roller lifters.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Again, that sounds ideal. Power isn't going to be a problem, reliability and relatively low maintenance are important to me.
Maybe you can put me in touch with the people who are doing this for you so I can understand better?
Cam is ordered as of last week.
I'd probably have to get them and my builder on the phone together to have any chance of making this happen.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

We talked it over w Tim Goolsby at bullet and had it ground. But this isnt foreign to any cam grinder, or at least it shouldn't be. But, there are some hydraulic roller profiles that you can't do it 2 and the only way of knowing is talking to the cam grinder.
Whoever it is tell him you want to run solid rollers on a hydraulic roller cam on the street.
There was also a interesting engine masters were they did the zero lash solid roller lifters on a hr cam. It came out quite a while after we had done it.
The concept is pretty simple. By running less lash the rollers don't get beat up. The cam profile isn't as agressive as a street solid roller but still kicks ***.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Seeing all that oil unrestricted it looks like to much. To much oil on needle bearings isn't good.

 

[cdr]

well I can throw a wrench in some things, The Morel Hydro's I run, I adjust the preload .020 from bottom of the plunger being bottomed out, works great , the roller keeps in contact with the cam at all times & it works like a solid [ Pretty much lol ] as long as the valves dont float

 

[Curiousyellow71]

well I can throw a wrench in some things, The Morel Hydro's I run, I adjust the preload .020 from bottom of the plunger being bottomed out, works great , the roller keeps in contact with the cam at all times & it works like a solid [ Pretty much lol ] as long as the valves dont float

We have another engine we are doing something similar but not a mopar. We have a isky solid roller cam with rhoads v max hydraulic roller lifters(not available for mopar). You can adjust so it performs like a solid cam or let the rhoads bleed off some duration and you don't have to worry about floating the valves.
But in terms of lifter weight the hydraulic roller lifters are really heavy compared to a simple solid roller lifter. It is amazing how quiet the Bullet hr cam is w solid roller lifters on it. It's literally silent.

 

[Kern Dog]

Just so I understand this......
You suggest to choose a hydraulic roller cam because the specs for it are milder and give better street manners but to use solid roller lifters with very little lash to reduce wear on the wheels and axles?
Great idea. I like that.
I do wonder though.....why wouldn't the cam grinder just make a milder version of the solid cam?
You may have mentioned it....maybe I missed it?

 

[Kern Dog]

Seeing all that oil unrestricted it looks like to much. To much oil on needle bearings isn't good.

Keep in mind that the video only shows the oil pump working with the engine at rest. The oil to the top end is limited and "timed" so it gets a shot once per cam revolution.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

The solid cam w a roller lifter still requires lash no matter what cam it is. You are absolutely correct they can make a solid match the hydraulic profile but it still has a bigger lash ramp. It is true some cams have pretty tight lash and that does help. But the hydraulic roller has no lash and a next to no ramp. The wheel stays on the cam and doesnt bounce. I will say It is strange getting the thin feeler gauges out. I believe we started at .009 and ended up going w .003 lash. You can go 0 if you want.

 

[BSB67]

Keep in mind that the video only shows the oil pump working with the engine at rest. The oil to the top end is limited and "timed" so it gets a shot once per cam revolution.

The cam and lifters in that video will get full time oiling. Only the rocker gear gets intermediate oiling, unless the #4 cam journal is grooved.

I'm just not a believer that you need to put more and more oil on everything. If you have enough oil, then everything more is just a waste, and possibly robbing oil from someplace else. A good needle bearing lifter will last forever with typical street roller profiles and spring pressures.

 

[Kern Dog]

The solid cam w a roller lifter still requires lash no matter what cam it is. You are absolutely correct they can make a solid match the hydraulic profile but it still has a lash ramp. It is true some cams have pretty tight lash and that does help. But the hydraulic roller has no lash or lash ramp. The wheel stays on the cam and doesnt bounce. I will say It is strange getting the thin feeler gauges out. I believe we started at .009 and ended up going w .003 lash. You can go 0 if you want.

Me....being a bit slow on the uptake, I didn't consider the "ramps" being different.
I have so much to learn.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Seeing all that oil unrestricted it looks like to much. To much oil on needle bearings isn't good.

Why not? That is about what mine looks like with the drill. I have 25 psi of OP at hot idle.
A high volume pump and 8 qt pan and your gold.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Me....being a bit slow on the uptake, I didn't consider the "ramps" being different.
I have so much to learn.

Lol.
I think your already familiar with it. Compare the lash on a mp .528 you had and a modern grind. The modern grinds run less lash...ie they have a smaller ramp. But if you think about it.. no hydraulic cam has lash. A roller cam with a lot of lash beats the roller to death...it bounces it like a basketball... The less lash you can run the closer the cam combination gets to your modern hydraulic cam...but w no collapsed lifter quality issues... or worn lifter bore issues... and lighter valve springs because you have a much lighter lifter.

 

[Kern Dog]

Sounds great.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

If the lifter is bouncing on the cam the springs are wrong,,,,,not enough open pressure.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If the lifter is bouncing on the cam the springs are wrong,,,,,not enough open pressure.

The bouncing basketball was a reference to running to much lash on a roller cam on the street. You are certainly correct on lifter bounce over the nose...that won't live long either.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Seeing all that oil unrestricted it looks like to much. To much oil on needle bearings isn't good.

My lifters are bushed rollers, not needle bearing. 96829B-16