Lets talk about roller cams for stroked big blocks!

[rumblefish360]

See ya around the neighborhood !

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

See ya around the neighborhood !

Come west young man,,,,,,,come west!.......to Bellmore.

 

[rumblefish360]

Maybe. The wife is pissed at “The Club” & I’m not so amused ether.

 

[dvw]

The open pressure isn't what kills them . It's aggressive ramps and wide lash. In fact weak springs that cause seat bounce is even worse. If the cam is going to be mild, why run a solid roller? How often sre you guys running solid rollers checking lash?
Doug

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I've ran a few different cams in my 440/493. All have been flat tappet style, two were hydraulic while the other 2 have been solid. I don't race the car on the dragstrip but I do enjoy some spirited street driving.
I'm at 10.0 to 1 compression with ported Edelbrock heads, 2 inch headers, the Performer RPM intake and a Demon 850 vacuum secondary carburetor. I have the Mopar Performance 528 solid cam and am using 1.6 roller tipped rocker arms.
I've been slow to finish but am trying to add A/C back to this car. It is an original A/C car but I I went with a Classic Auto Air setup to save weight and to have an all electric system. The kit comes with the small Sanden compressor.
I keep hearing about how roller camshafts can give a nice increase in torque without losing street driveability. I want to drive the car more...I love the car but keep finding excuses to drive something else. I am not disappointed in the performance of the car as it is now, I just wondered what I might gain. I am fine with adjusting valve lash so a solid roller cam is fine. I suspect the lifters for a solid roller setup are probably cheaper than hydraulics. I thought I remember hearing of troubles with hydraulic roller cams that idle a lot...I don't recall the specifics.
I have 3.55 gears and a 28" tire. Soon I plan to swap from my 727 to a 5 speed kit from Silver Sport Overdrives. Currently I have an 11" converter that performs great with this cam.
What is your combo? Do you have any suggestions?

To be honest, 5 speed over drive, 3.55 gear, And AC I would leave well enough alone. I think the .528 cam is a good choice for the combo. If it was more of a street/strip car then some changes may be appropriate. Sounds like you wanna drive and your current combo looks good for that. You could try a bigger carb, I’m not sure of the Venturi size on the 850 demon.

 

[BSB67]

There certainly is a love affair going on over the bushed roller lifters. At some point as a build and cam become more radical the good bushed will be a better choice. The needle bearing Red Zones will last forever with a reasonable street oriented cam lobes with reasonable spring loads. I think the focus should be quality. Usually the best way to gauge quality is price. I wouldn't spend less than $1,000 on the lifters, but that just me.

Feel the same with push rod oiling. Probably needed at some point, but sending oil in 16 more directions (not to mention 16 more leak points) to fix a problem that does not exist on a typical street motor seems silly. Get a rocker like the Pro Magnums that has positive oil feed to the rocker cup. It works beautifully.

 

[Kern Dog]

Well, THIS got really complicated....
I am not looking to pull the engine apart to bush the lifter bores. I just thought that even though these roller setups cost more, maybe I could squeeze out a little more power with no drawbacks.
I have raced the car before but I mostly use the car for cruising, distance driving, car shows and hopefully someday, road course fun.
I read a few articles over the years about how a roller cam can make a nice jump in power without a loss in idle quality. I did have a more rowdy Lunati solid flat tappet cam and liked it, I even saved the lifters in the proper order. I've twice used the EDM lifters from Johnson and have had no trouble with them. Maybe I'll just stick with what I have.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.

 

[BSB67]

Well, THIS got really complicated....
I am not looking to pull the engine apart to bush the lifter bores. I just thought that even though these roller setups cost more, maybe I could squeeze out a little more power with no drawbacks.
I have raced the car before but I mostly use the car for cruising, distance driving, car shows and hopefully someday, road course fun.
I read a few articles over the years about how a roller cam can make a nice jump in power without a loss in idle quality. I did have a more rowdy Lunati solid flat tappet cam and liked it, I even saved the lifters in the proper order. I've twice used the EDM lifters from Johnson and have had no trouble with them. Maybe I'll just stick with what I have.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.

You might be confusing the discussion and the use of "bushing" in this thread. I believe that most posters are talking about bushed lifter rollers, not lifter bores.

Have a cam professional spec you a street type roller cam that will live with a 200/500 type spring that has duration specs a littler bigger than what you have now, and I suspect that you will be happy with the performance bump.

 

[andyf]

I've ran a few different cams in my 440/493. All have been flat tappet style, two were hydraulic while the other 2 have been solid. I don't race the car on the dragstrip but I do enjoy some spirited street driving.
I'm at 10.0 to 1 compression with ported Edelbrock heads, 2 inch headers, the Performer RPM intake and a Demon 850 vacuum secondary carburetor. I have the Mopar Performance 528 solid cam and am using 1.6 roller tipped rocker arms.
I've been slow to finish but am trying to add A/C back to this car. It is an original A/C car but I I went with a Classic Auto Air setup to save weight and to have an all electric system. The kit comes with the small Sanden compressor.
I keep hearing about how roller camshafts can give a nice increase in torque without losing street driveability. I want to drive the car more...I love the car but keep finding excuses to drive something else. I am not disappointed in the performance of the car as it is now, I just wondered what I might gain. I am fine with adjusting valve lash so a solid roller cam is fine. I suspect the lifters for a solid roller setup are probably cheaper than hydraulics. I thought I remember hearing of troubles with hydraulic roller cams that idle a lot...I don't recall the specifics.
I have 3.55 gears and a 28" tire. Soon I plan to swap from my 727 to a 5 speed kit from Silver Sport Overdrives. Currently I have an 11" converter that performs great with this cam.
What is your combo? Do you have any suggestions?

You could pick up some top end power over the 528 cam with a hyd roller but you might not notice much of an increase in street driving. A hyd roller would make less noise so you would notice that. I use hyd roller cams in all of my stuff now, even the street/strip car. I also switched over to EFI and got rid of the carbs. I'd highly recommend you do the same for a driver. The combination of a hyd roller cam, EFI and computer controlled ignition solves a lot of classic hot rod problems. For your car I'd stay small with the cam, probably something in the 230 range at 050. The cam I have in my Coronet is 239 at 050 with 0.600 lift. Something like that will be good for 550 hp with good heads in a pump gas engine like yours. Porter Racing Heads can fix you up with a custom grind that works for your combination. I'm using Gaterman lifters but I've had good luck with the Comp hyd roller lifters over the years. Morel makes good hyd roller lifters also. Getting the correct valve spring is the trick so pay attention to the valve spring recommendation from the cam vendor.

 

[lewtot184]

I've always thought the greatest drawback to the .528 cam was the silly .028"-.032" lash settings.

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I've always thought the greatest drawback to the .528 cam was the silly .028"-.032" lash settings.

Those old MP cams work just fine with the lash tightened up.

 

[Kern Dog]

I run mine at the spec listed. Never tried closing the lash.
My last solid cam was a Lunati with .020 intake, .022 exhaust. I was having troubles with detonation and was told a tighter lash would in effect, make the cam "bigger". I wanted to close up the lash a bit but after a chat with a Cam guy, he advised against it for fear of lobe and lifter damage.
I'll bet the MP cam clearance could be tightened up to the Lunati specs though, huh?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

.024/.026 is where I would try it. Ran my .557 at that lash and it ran well.

 

[lewtot184]

I think i'd exhaust all my tuning options before I blew a couple grand on a cam change. .022" hot will give .015" at the tappet which should be very safe. just my opinion.

 

[rumblefish360]

Makes me wonder how tight you can go.

 

[Kern Dog]

Good point, Fish. That is why I asked the man at Lunati Cams about valve lash. He said that the lobes are designed with ramps of various rates. If the lash is tighter than ideal, the edges of the lifters want to dig into the lobes!
WHAT ???
Since I know a little but not a LOT, I took him at his word and stayed with the spec that was called for on the cam card.
I'm not disappointed in the performance as it is now. I did lose some punch when I went from the 3.91 gear to the 3.55 but I expected that. I made that gear swap because when I had the 3.91, I also had a Gear Vendors unit in the car. When I sold the Gear Vendors, I switched to the 3.55 just to make freeway driving tolerable.
I will be switching to some shorter tires that will have the effect of a deeper axle gear. The 5 speed will stir things up as well, since it has a 2.87 1st gear ratio compared to the TF 727 2.45.
Finally, I did not expect to see the lifters cost so much! In 2013 when I was considering the same thing, I thought I saw Hughes or Comp lifters for under $500. I figured I could do this for under $1200 total. Not that money is everything but jeez...

 

[lewtot184]

Makes me wonder how tight you can go.

my opinion is to maintain .010" between the tappet and base circle on the cam. multiply that by the true rocker ratio and use that number as valve lash minimum. the fly in the ointment here is tight lash flat tappet cams; which I don't understand a need for.

 

[rumblefish360]

my opinion is to maintain .010" between the tappet and base circle on the cam. multiply that by the true rocker ratio and use that number as valve lash minimum. the fly in the ointment here is tight lash flat tappet cams; which I don't understand a need for.

A tighter lash cam is as far as I know only for quieter running cams.
Also of note, you mentioned indirectly the changing numbers between hot and cold running. How much this spec changes, is dependent on metals, correct?

I’m a bit fuzzy in this area.

Good point, Fish. That is why I asked the man at Lunati Cams about valve lash. He said that the lobes are designed with ramps of various rates. If the lash is tighter than ideal, the edges of the lifters want to dig into the lobes!
WHAT ???
Since I know a little but not a LOT, I took him at his word and stayed with the spec that was called for on the cam card.

Ha ha ha, yea, this I knew as well. Kind of a scary thought and hence my, “I wonder” question. I have read before guys going tighter on the lash but not having any experience in daring so.....

I'm not disappointed in the performance as it is now. I did lose some punch when I went from the 3.91 gear to the 3.55 but I expected that. I made that gear swap because when I had the 3.91, I also had a Gear Vendors unit in the car. When I sold the Gear Vendors, I switched to the 3.55 just to make freeway driving tolerable.
I will be switching to some shorter tires that will have the effect of a deeper axle gear. The 5 speed will stir things up as well, since it has a 2.87 1st gear ratio compared to the TF 727 2.45.
Finally, I did not expect to see the lifters cost so much! In 2013 when I was considering the same thing, I thought I saw Hughes or Comp lifters for under $500. I figured I could do this for under $1200 total. Not that money is everything but jeez...

True on the money thing. The recent rise in prices a few items sucks and intakes were a bit of a surprise. I’m not exactly ready to pay nearly $400 for a new intake. It’s even worse with the MoPar Magnum stuff. DANG!

I tend not to complain due to purchasing parts for the smallest company of the big 3 is a norm. I get the supply and demand issue has an effect on cost. But, again, DANG!

 

[Geri]

I've ran a few different cams in my 440/493. All have been flat tappet style, two were hydraulic while the other 2 have been solid. I don't race the car on the dragstrip but I do enjoy some spirited street driving.
I'm at 10.0 to 1 compression with ported Edelbrock heads, 2 inch headers, the Performer RPM intake and a Demon 850 vacuum secondary carburetor. I have the Mopar Performance 528 solid cam and am using 1.6 roller tipped rocker arms.
I've been slow to finish but am trying to add A/C back to this car. It is an original A/C car but I I went with a Classic Auto Air setup to save weight and to have an all electric system. The kit comes with the small Sanden compressor.
I keep hearing about how roller camshafts can give a nice increase in torque without losing street driveability. I want to drive the car more...I love the car but keep finding excuses to drive something else. I am not disappointed in the performance of the car as it is now, I just wondered what I might gain. I am fine with adjusting valve lash so a solid roller cam is fine. I suspect the lifters for a solid roller setup are probably cheaper than hydraulics. I thought I remember hearing of troubles with hydraulic roller cams that idle a lot...I don't recall the specifics.
I have 3.55 gears and a 28" tire. Soon I plan to swap from my 727 to a 5 speed kit from Silver Sport Overdrives. Currently I have an 11" converter that performs great with this cam.
What is your combo? Do you have any suggestions?

Roller cams in BB mopars ,as you all know there is no plate to retain the cam in the correct place like the 318 family of engines.
with Hyd/solid cams the lobe is slightly tapered high in front side of lobe. with the lifters having a slight convex bottom surface this keeps the cam from moving fore and aft in the block. when you switch to a roller the lobes are flat and there is nothing to keep the cam from walking forward- and it will. there goes your timing if lucky- if unlucky the lifters can fall down behind the lobes .
to run a roller cam you must have a front cover that will provide access to making a button retainer to hold the cam in place. I have done this by welding a stronger plate in the backside of the cover and a button the correct length to retain the cam. this works if you have the 3 bolt cam, single bolt cam,must find another way.
this would be the only determining factor for running a roller on the street. they are actually very nice cams.

 

[BSB67]

Roller cams in BB mopars ,as you all know there is no plate to retain the cam in the correct place like the 318 family of engines.
with Hyd/solid cams the lobe is slightly tapered high in front side of lobe. with the lifters having a slight convex bottom surface this keeps the cam from moving fore and aft in the block. when you switch to a roller the lobes are flat and there is nothing to keep the cam from walking forward- and it will. there goes your timing if lucky- if unlucky the lifters can fall down behind the lobes .
to run a roller cam you must have a front cover that will provide access to making a button retainer to hold the cam in place. I have done this by welding a stronger plate in the backside of the cover and a button the correct length to retain the cam. this works if you have the 3 bolt cam, single bolt cam,must find another way.
this would be the only determining factor for running a roller on the street. they are actually very nice cams.

This is true. There are lot of different ways to skin this cat, and if the cost of going roller does not scare you away, finding a solution to appropriately maintain and control cam end play will be easy.

I don't think anyone makes a single bolt solid roller.