Muscle cars?

[coronet68mx]

The Corvette was born because of the Nash Healey. 6 cylinder 2 seat sports car. Only lasted a couple of years, but you can clearly see the resemblance. View attachment 731219 View attachment 731220[

View attachment 731218

Yeap I can clearly see the resemblance

 

[polywideblock]

heaver therefor SLOWER

 

[Cojohnso1]

So all GTX’s came with Dana’s?

Mine had/has the Dana. And most do. But I have seen some with 8 3/4.

 

[gdrill]

Yours is 4speed?

 

[Cojohnso1]

Here is the '69 Roadrunner I sold. I pulled out of Phenix Alabama. (And yes, That is how they spelled Phoenix.) I agree about the 18" wheels. But I was told that someone stole the original tires and rims weeks before I arrived. The rims worked ok for the car. But not my particular taste. Car needed more work than I had time. So I sold for a small profit. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. Hope it gives pleasure to the new owner.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Yours is 4speed?

yes

 

[gdrill]

So didn’t every car that got a Hemi or a 440 / 4spd combo, get a Dana diff? Regardless of model? Right through to 72/3ish?

 

[Cojohnso1]

So didn’t every model that got a Hemi or a 440 / 4spd combo, get a Dana diff? Regardless of model? Right through to 72/3ish?

I thought so. At least thru 71. (Not sure after) But as you can see. No such thing as "Always"

 

[Budnicks]

At least we can almost all agree that Mustangs and Corvettes do not belong in the Muscle Car category.

Anything else is just semantics.

I know I'll get some grief/flack for this...

Arguably some will say it was the 1st,
was a 1949 Olds Rocket 88,
1st Overhead valve V8 mass produced in a midsized car

---------------------------------------------------------------

I think it was org. used/magazine that coined the fraise
to describe a Muscle Car
was an Article in Hot Rod (some say it was Motor Trend) about the
1964 Bobcat/GTO vs a Ferrari GTO write up
the term was used to describe the new (back in late 1963)
AMERICAN MANUFACTURED MIDSIZE (key word being midsize)
BIG BLOCK 4bbl or multi carb'd equipped
(albeit companies like Pontiac doesn't designate a BB vs SB)
it describes a RWD 2DR HT/COUPE
MASS PRODUCED for the YOUTH INFLUENCED (Baby Boomers) MARKET

thought to be the real Muscle-car era was 1964-1970,
(again it's not my words, it was their writers term & their definitions)
it started to go down hill after that, 1971-1972 they started to detune
most all the BB's (& SB's) lower the compression, smaller valves,
hard seats for unleaded fuels, for the pending 1973 std.'s
(new 5mph impact Fugly *** bumpers & safety std.'s came about then too)
& the insurance companies & safety advocates were pressuring
congress/fed. govt. to have stricter & safer car &/or mandates
(******* ins/govt. commies killed it off)

the demise of 99% of the coined fraise "muscle car era",
albeit a few cars like, Pontiac Super Duty 455cid Trans Am,
(not a muscle car by dif.), were still built

albeit Mopar played a big role in 62 with Max Wedge/Super Stock
offerings from Plymouth & Dodge, was just the start,
all across drag racing & NASCAR too

(it wasn't called Muscle Car yet)
the 55 D500 (or 501's) was arguably the 1st to have been a factory built
little Hemi 300+hp 150mph efforts, it was a full-size car, not mass produced
Daytona (beach) record holder


pertaining to the outline of the above; not muscle cars
Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, AMX, Javelin,
later 68+ Nova, E-Body platforms Cuda', Challenger etc. etc. etc.
pony/some say sports cars

Ac Cobra, Corvette,
sports cars

Fairlane especially prior to 66 (66-67 are arguably in in the midsize)
Thunderbolt 64, Nova/Chevy II 62-67
& early Tempests (like 63)
& the A-body platform Barracuda & Darts/GTS etc. etc. etc.
are all considered compacts

Galaxie, Impala, Biscayne, Catalina, Grand prix,
any Caddy until the 80's, Old's 88, 222, LeSabre etc. etc. etc.
are all full size

IMO the Buick GS is often overlooked as a real true Muscle car

Midsize 5 (advert. fraise) from Chrysler/Plymouth brand was included for
Belvedere, Road Runner, Sport Satellite, Satellite, GTX,
arguably these are mid size too Charger, Coronet (included Super Bee & R/T)

don't shoot the messenger
or start insulting me, calling me all kinds of rude names
just because I didn't include your specific year or models
it was just what was done & said, about the 1964-1970 (maybe 71) era cars
you are not being left out, they just weren't called that...
yes; they may be muscle cars too, by todays terminology,
but it wasn't back then "YET"

enjoy the short book, there's a lot more
but my 2 typing fingers are sore now

 

[Dennis H]

Love this thread. Keep it coming boys...

 

[kiwigtx]

(it wasn't called Muscle Car yet)
the 55 D500 (or 501's) was arguably the 1st to have been a factory built
little Hemi 300+hp 150mph efforts, it was a full-size car, not mass produced
Daytona (beach) record holder

This ^^^^

 

[Cojohnso1]

Love this thread. Keep it coming boys...

Are you not entertained?

 

[Cojohnso1]

This ^^^^

"the 55 D500 (or 501's) was arguably the 1st to have been a factory built
little Hemi 300+hp 150mph efforts"

That is the other argument. That "Muscle Cars" actually started much earlier. If you belong to that camp? I would agree this car may have started the factory horse power wars.

 

[Richard Cranium]

All 1966-1971 440 & Hemi equipped B-body 4-speeds came standard with a 3:54 Dana rear end, no mater what model. All automatic 440 & Hemi cars came with a 8 3/4. 383 4 barrel cars always got a 8 3/4.

The exceptions are 1969 440-6 cars which all came with 4:10 Dana rears, automatic and 4-speed. Starting in 1969, you could option a 4:10 Dana rear end (super track pack option) in an automatic equipped 440 or Hemi car.

I'm not up to date how the Dana was optioned in 440 & Hemi automatic equipped cars in 1970 & 71, but I suspect it was the same as 1969.

 

[Dennis H]

69 Coronet R/T here. 3:54 Dana factory. 4 speed. 440.

 

[44070dart]

OHV does not mean fast in 1949.. my father had one and that tank barely got out of it's own way. Can't see the Chrysler of any year being thought of as a muscle car, hemi or not. I know some are just salivating to have a Mopar as the first muscle car, but don't think that flies in any non-bias car world. IMHO

 

[polywideblock]

my 71 r/t has 440 ,4 speed and a Dana 3:54

 

[Budnicks]

Muscle Car a 1968 Road Runner here
RM23 HT 383cid 335hp, P/S, manual HD 11" drum brakes
a 727tf, 3.55:1, 8.750"
Black Decore interior & lighting package,
all 68 RR's had bench seats
& they also had a column shift if it was an 727tf-auto
in the beautiful LL1 Surf Turquoise Metallic,
black out hood treatment paint,
Road Wheels (Chrome Magnum 500's with no trim rings)
opt. Tach, AM radio, 2 speed wipers

IIRC it came out to as delivered,
$3,089 at MSRP retail cost

it's a bit different from the org. now

 

[Cojohnso1]

All 1966-1971 440 & Hemi equipped B-body 4-speeds came standard with a 3:54 Dana rear end, no mater what model. All automatic 440 & Hemi cars came with a 8 3/4. 383 4 barrel cars always got a 8 3/4.

The exceptions are 1969 440-6 cars which all came with 4:10 Dana rears, automatic and 4-speed. Starting in 1969, you could option a 4:10 Dana rear end (super track pack option) in an automatic equipped 440 or Hemi car.

I'm not up to date how the Dana was optioned in 440 & Hemi automatic equipped cars in 1970 & 71, but I suspect it was the same as 1969.

What you posted was what I once thought. But not sure if you have seen it out there lately? And unless you have some serious factory connections? Rears are impossible to trace. Take my car. VIN says RS23. Factory build number does match fender tag. But fender tag says D32. (Automatic) So someone 30+ years ago. Converted to 4 speed. And changed rear to correct Dana? I just rolled my eyes and purchased as "Not even close" to numbers matching. Car. Price did reflect that point. 440 was correct year, but also didn't match. So I guess we just enjoy what we got? And that my GTX will never be the $40g+ red carpet build. So I just putt it around. And park at some very small local shows. Besides. I have already posted that I think the whole "Barrett Jackson" build to exact factory spec is over glamorised and priced. And yes, I have taken a beating from the pure bloods for that position. But how does one hot rod with a pure blood?

 

[Photon440]

OHV does not mean fast in 1949.. my father had one and that tank barely got out of it's own way. Can't see the Chrysler of any year being thought of as a muscle car, hemi or not. I know some are just salivating to have a Mopar as the first muscle car, but don't think that flies in any non-bias car world. IMHO

Perspective. Compared to the mighty flat-head six that Chrysler used in 1949, the Olds may have seemed at least brisk. Chrysler's 1951 V8 hemi (back then it was called the 'Dual Rocker-shaft Engine) packed 180 hp, which doesn't seem like much now but back then the hot rodders had to do every trick in the book to pull that from a Ford flatty V8.

The much talked about 1955 Chrysler 300 would still seem slow to us as well, with its sleep inducing 9.9 second 0-60 run. At least it had a good top speed.