Need input about a potential car trade deal

[Meep-Meep]

You guys and gals know I have a 66 hemi Charger that is pretty decent and most who have seen it say it's much better than average in terms of body and paint. All the chrome is done including the pot metal. The tail light lens looks new and the EL dash has been redone. The engine and tranny are date correct and once I sort out the drive line vibration and get the carbs tuned it will drive as good as it looks. So here's the deal:

I know a guy who has a real A12 4 spd RR. The car is mostly original paint with a few bumps and bruises including a pretty good size crease dent in the quarter but very repairable. No rust issues or major repairs that I know of and I have no idea where the car is originally from, however that history might be known. The car looks great from across the parking lot and the interior has been done with Legendary stuff so it's pretty nice, but if you want it really nice it will have to be repainted. The engine is date correct but not numbers and I have no idea if the tranny is original either or if it's even an 18 spline (should be though). It does have the Dana, which is believed to be correct to the car. All the A12 specific stuff appears to be there and is original either to that car or at least OEM. I'm trying to keep this as generic as possible and not mention names so I won't even say the color. But I like the original color so no issue for me there. It is not red or orange as I imagine those are the most popular crossing the auction block. The guy said he probably won't take any less than $50K for it and my thought is not a straight across trade for the hemi but get $10K on top. The guy that owns the car is a MoPar guy so he knows exactly what it is and what it's worth - probably to the penny.

Since my name is meep meep, having another RR would not hurt my image any, but even without the name I still prefer the RR over the 66 / 67 Charger body. Not to offend anyone who loves their gen 1 Charger, but like many I meet, that body has never done it for me. That said I am in no hurry to get rid of the Charger. It is for sale but I will not fire sale it because I hate it or because I have to. I don't hate the car, and I do drive it regularly and enjoy every minute, but just prefer a different body style. I do love the interior and think it's one of the best designs ever.

My suspicion is any trading deal that will be presented or accepted by the A12 guy will tend to be in his favor. But my idea of a fair trade will be for both parties share the pain so to speak. I will not participate in a one sided deal.

As always, I appreciate all comments and thoughts from you guru's.

 

[lewtot184]

you could check the numbers on the trans to see what it is. having to get another 18 splinner could be an ouch. paint and body work ain't cheap and non original engine hurts value. all in all i prefer the '68-'69 b-body to the early chargers, but thats just personal opinion. i think as long as you don't end up with more money in the RR than it's worth and it's where your hearts at then go for it. on the other hand, being stuck with a real hemi charger ain't nothing to get your panties in a knot over.

 

[moparjohnny]

meep, i trust you will make the best call there for yourself,you are a smart guy and very knowledgeable about mopars,if you want the a12 and you like your charger and the trade is fair in your mind,do the deal and if it is not fair in your mind, then keep liking your charger.good luck

 

[roadrunnerman]

That's a tough one. To give you an example and that is all this is. 2008 old car price guide says 69 RR #1 condition is $35,000, says add 75%=$26,250,total is $61,250. for 440-6pack. 66 charger $26,000 #1 condition but it says cars with the hemi-auto value inestimable. Not saying I go with what the mag says,they are fun to read though. Never owned a hemi or an A12 car. My personal opinion is the hemi beats an a12. MY 0.02.

 

[Budnicks]

This is probably really stupid to ask but...LOL...., Did you check the VIN# & see the fender tag, radiator support & trunk gutter areas for #'s ??... Does it have the original A12 6bbl hood, hood pins w/short lanyards, original air cleaner & tray, carbs, manifolds, exhaust etc. ??... I think your original offer/speculation of a trade cars, +$10k from the A12 guy, would be good for both parties... I think the 66 Hemi Charger is worth more than $60k+ IMHO {but with out photos or that, I haven't ever seen either car, that I know of anyway}, that would put the driver quality A12 69-1/2 RR @ $50k, not too bad of money for, a car with body damage, needs paint & repairs, and unrestored, undocumented, None Numbers Matching 440/6bbl 4 speed 1969-1/2 RR, especially if the Dana 60 rear &/or the trans isn't #'s matching or even an 18 spline 4 speed Hemi trans either {if you haven't found out &/or or checked}, I do love my RR's, better than the 1st gen Chargers also, not that anything is wrong with them, I just like a 1st gen 68-69 RR even better & especially a real A12 car.... good luck meeps

 

[RustyRatRod]

I would say find out how much of the car IS original. I assume yours is. That said, if you like what you find out, I say go for it. It sounds like you sorta already want it.

 

[WileE]

Why not get an independent, unbiased appraisal on both cars for yourself. Then look at the objective numbers, to see in black-and-white. Then, you can judge what your subjective heart does in any decision you make.

 

[Ron 73]

Im afraid the appraisal might do more harm then good for Meep, He knows Mopars also (RR owner) so he understands the idea that the 1st and 2nd gen Chargers are usually with a "you have to love them or hate them" attitude. The hemi in the Charger is a plus even though its not a numbers but is period correct. He would know what a paint job would cost being into these old cars which gives Meep a edge, because the Charger doesn't need paint, 4 speed RR verses ? with the Charger, ( i think its a auto but cant remember) Legendary does do great interiors but i agree with Meep when it comes to the interior in these Chargers which is one if not the best looking interiors.. If you know the guy and as you said hes a Mopar guy who knows cars, If your both interested in a trade, i know he can trust you, but can you trust him to trade off cars for a day and each of you could check them out? Just my 2 cents hear, Theres a plus for both guys here in one way or the other, Good luck Meep, Im sure you'll make the right call on this and i hope he can be reasonably easy to work with you...

 

[Meep-Meep]

you could check the numbers on the trans to see what it is. having to get another 18 splinner could be an ouch. paint and body work ain't cheap and non original engine hurts value. all in all i prefer the '68-'69 b-body to the early chargers, but thats just personal opinion. i think as long as you don't end up with more money in the RR than it's worth and it's where your hearts at then go for it. on the other hand, being stuck with a real hemi charger ain't nothing to get your panties in a knot over.

I have two freshly rebuilt 18 spline trannys that I can't seem to sell for a reasonable price so I have that covered.

My feelings won't be hurt if I get stuck with that 66 Charger. But even if the deal went my way (+$10K) I'd use most of that up making the car as nice as the hemi. The A12 is not a roach at all. It's just showing battle scars.

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Why not get an independent, unbiased appraisal on both cars for yourself. Then look at the objective numbers, to see in black-and-white. Then, you can judge what your subjective heart does in any decision you make.

That's actually not a bad idea to get another set of eyes on the situation.

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This is probably really stupid to ask but...LOL...., Did you check the VIN# & see the fender tag, radiator support & trunk gutter areas for #'s ??... Does it have the original A12 6bbl hood, hood pins w/short lanyards, original air cleaner & tray, carbs, manifolds, exhaust etc. ??... I think your original offer/speculation of a trade cars, +$10k from the A12 guy, would be good for both parties... I think the 66 Hemi Charger is worth more than $60k+ IMHO {but with out photos or that, I haven't ever seen either car, that I know of anyway}, that would put the driver quality A12 69-1/2 RR @ $50k, not too bad of money for, a car with body damage, needs paint & repairs, and unrestored, undocumented, None Numbers Matching 440/6bbl 4 speed 1969-1/2 RR, especially if the Dana 60 rear &/or the trans isn't #'s matching or even an 18 spline 4 speed Hemi trans either {if you haven't found out &/or or checked}, I do love my RR's, better than the 1st gen Chargers also, not that anything is wrong with them, I just like a 1st gen 68-69 RR even better & especially a real A12 car.... good luck meeps

Hagerty says my hemi is worth $85K but I seriously doubt I'd have a line of people beating a path to my door with that many dead presidents. When I took it to the MoPar show/swap in Fremont some people looked at me like I dropped from the moon when I replied to the "how much" question. "these must be worth about $60-65K". Someone said there is one just like it for $50K.

I just think the A12 RR would be a great addition but only at the right price. There was a numbers matching A/T project one for sale here and I think it went for about $40K.

 

[shag766]

i think ron hit the nail on the head with the appraisal approach. the last thing you are is a dummy. to repeat an old quote; the cards don't lie.
good luck

 

[tallhair]

Im afraid the appraisal might do more harm then good for Meep, He knows Mopars also (RR owner) so he understands the idea that the 1st and 2nd gen Chargers are usually with a "you have to love them or hate them" attitude. The hemi in the Charger is a plus even though its not a numbers but is period correct. He would know what a paint job would cost being into these old cars which gives Meep a edge, because the Charger doesn't need paint, 4 speed RR verses ? with the Charger, ( i think its a auto but cant remember) Legendary does do great interiors but i agree with Meep when it comes to the interior in these Chargers which is one if not the best looking interiors.. If you know the guy and as you said hes a Mopar guy who knows cars, If your both interested in a trade, i know he can trust you, but can you trust him to trade off cars for a day and each of you could check them out? Just my 2 cents hear, Theres a plus for both guys here in one way or the other, Good luck Meep, Im sure you'll make the right call on this and i hope he can be reasonably easy to work with you...

I agree and would also be concerned that personal opinion would enter the equation. Even Mopar appraisers have preferences so i doubt the selected appraiser would be completely unbiased in their final appraisals even if not intentional.

 

[skyman51]

You guys and gals know I have a 66 hemi Charger that is pretty decent and most who have seen it say it's much better than average in terms of body and paint. All the chrome is done including the pot metal. The tail light lens looks new and the EL dash has been redone. The engine and tranny are date correct and once I sort out the drive line vibration and get the carbs tuned it will drive as good as it looks. So here's the deal:

I know a guy who has a real A12 4 spd RR. The car is mostly original paint with a few bumps and bruises including a pretty good size crease dent in the quarter but very repairable. No rust issues or major repairs that I know of and I have no idea where the car is originally from, however that history might be known. The car looks great from across the parking lot and the interior has been done with Legendary stuff so it's pretty nice, but if you want it really nice it will have to be repainted. The engine is date correct but not numbers and I have no idea if the tranny is original either or if it's even an 18 spline (should be though). It does have the Dana, which is believed to be correct to the car. All the A12 specific stuff appears to be there and is original either to that car or at least OEM. I'm trying to keep this as generic as possible and not mention names so I won't even say the color. But I like the original color so no issue for me there. It is not red or orange as I imagine those are the most popular crossing the auction block. The guy said he probably won't take any less than $50K for it and my thought is not a straight across trade for the hemi but get $10K on top. The guy that owns the car is a MoPar guy so he knows exactly what it is and what it's worth - probably to the penny.

Since my name is meep meep, having another RR would not hurt my image any, but even without the name I still prefer the RR over the 66 / 67 Charger body. Not to offend anyone who loves their gen 1 Charger, but like many I meet, that body has never done it for me. That said I am in no hurry to get rid of the Charger. It is for sale but I will not fire sale it because I hate it or because I have to. I don't hate the car, and I do drive it regularly and enjoy every minute, but just prefer a different body style. I do love the interior and think it's one of the best designs ever.

My suspicion is any trading deal that will be presented or accepted by the A12 guy will tend to be in his favor. But my idea of a fair trade will be for both parties share the pain so to speak. I will not participate in a one sided deal.

As always, I appreciate all comments and thoughts from you guru's.

First how are you sure it is real? Does the fender tag match the hidden numbers? If this is correct I think it is a no brainer. Go for a trade deal.

 

[hunt2elk]

I agree with the others about first finding out exactly what is not original on the RR. My personnal opinion is that if you ever had to sell, you would have more potential buyers for the A12 car. Nice ones seem to be selling in the $50k - $65k. Ultimately it boils down to if you want a new toy in your garage.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Meep you have a hemi charger, and I know how much you were looking to get for it. An A12 not numbers matching and needs paint and you want to get rid of the charger than do the deal, but I think you would be sorry since what you have is now very rare.

specialty in Fairfield has a 70 air grabber that I have been drooling over now for months



http://www.specialtysales.com/car.php?carnum=3364

 

[loneagle]

Ok after reading the original ? Then all above posts keep the charger is yours and yes its rare (hypothetical) used term losely. The road runner could be a great car and it is your favorite type hence meep-meep. Decisions get based on wants over needs but again ? Is would it be a fair deal at the rr and $10 for a very limited production car my honest opinion keep the charger I'm not biased I don't personally like either car personally but would rather have a hemi car over a a12 car anyday you could always get a rr and build yourself a a12 tribute car if that's what you want and will enjoy flogging but just my opinion and like a holes we all have them and usually full of crap

 

[Meep-Meep]

I agree with the others about first finding out exactly what is not original on the RR. My personnal opinion is that if you ever had to sell, you would have more potential buyers for the A12 car. Nice ones seem to be selling in the $50k - $65k. Ultimately it boils down to if you want a new toy in your garage.

This is one thing I have been considering and what prompted the ultimate question.

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Meep you have a hemi charger, and I know how much you were looking to get for it. An A12 not numbers matching and needs paint and you want to get rid of the charger than do the deal, but I think you would be sorry since what you have is now very rare.

specialty in Fairfield has a 70 air grabber that I have been drooling over now for months



http://www.specialtysales.com/car.php?carnum=3364

Hmmmmm, maybe Bigman has the answer! What I should do is hunt for a 70 RR. That way I'll have a 68, 69 and a 70. And I REALLY like the 70 RR's!

 

[Budnicks]

Hmmmmm, maybe Bigman has the answer! What I should do is hunt for a 70 RR. That way I'll have a 68, 69 and a 70. And I REALLY like the 70 RR's!

I like that idea, well there you go, add a 70 RR to the mix now...LOL... I wish I was in your dilemma... good luck what ever you decide... how about getting a 68-70 Charger R/T & really make this a confusing dilemma...LOL...

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IMHFO a 70 440/6bbl RR isn't even close to the same value or as a sought after collectable as the 69-1/2 A12 cars are, or the 66 Hemi Charger, although they are cool as hell cars...

 

[wannadrag]

Pretty nice A12 Bee at $49K

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3580173870.html

 

[Budnicks]

Meep you have a hemi charger, and I know how much you were looking to get for it. An A12 not numbers matching and needs paint and you want to get rid of the charger than do the deal, but I think you would be sorry since what you have is now very rare.

specialty in Fairfield has a 70 air grabber that I have been drooling over now for months



http://www.specialtysales.com/car.php?carnum=3364

cool ride for sure but IMHFO the Charger is probably ultimately worth considerably more...

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Pretty nice A12 Bee at $49K

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3580173870.html

Looks like a good deal.... Nice car for the money "probably" {if it's documented} 69.5 Super Bee A12 440 Six Pack Column shift 727 Auto, R4 red, I don't think the automatic bench seat cars are as sought after, like the 4 speed & dana 60 A12 cars, but are very cool also... as freaken' cool as it is, It's not a RR either... very nice car thou, I'd love to own it...

 

[tpodwdog]

getting rid of a HEMI Charger just to match your name aint a very smart thing to do. altho, like you...the 1st generation chargers just dont "do it" for me like a 69 or 70 road runner does.....id keep the charger. you already have what most of us want.....just change your name instead .