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New 360 build with oil leaking into coolant

I found none! Not 1 air bubble. Had to drain the Pass side I had so much water then WD after. Blew all out and sat for a while looking at it. Then it dawned on me......
When I removed both heads, they were wet not dry. Measured them today again and are between .045 -.047. Compressed should be .039 or close. They never compressed????? Not even a skiff of blue writing on any head. Clean as new. What the heck...
 
A few calls later to some local builders and machine shops, they asked if i used ARP bolts and did I put supplied lube not only on threads but also on the washers?
Um...well no. Just the threads I said.
They said you need lube on the washers as well as they tend to bind and give false torque readings. Wow!!!...I've done many of these and never had a problem til now...they said since the gaskets were wet on removal you didn't have compression. Do it again and pay close attention to the bolts and washers plus the location of the washer and bolt heads on the aluminum emboss around the hole.
 
So tomorrow I'll go again...but pay closer attention. I ran a straight edge on deck and head surface. All pretty flat.....so could it be that simple?? Tomorrow we see...
 
But please..any advice please give it. At this stage I'm looking for help. Maybe a better idea for testing?
 
ok Update!

Redid both both heads this time with lots of lube. Still same...
Have nailed it down to air leaking from #4 cam journal when pressuring coolant system. I know of no water jacket running beside a cam journal passage, so I have to assume a cracked block. And a big hole at that. Any help to chime in wold be great.
 
Is it the passage in the block or the head? The cause of the issue in the block we had was core shift. It wasn’t cracked. The passage intersected a water jacket as the entire block core was off to one side. Drilled the passage oversize and sleeved it with a lock tighted tube. Not sure how close that passage is in a small block as the one we had was a big block. As a side note only lube the top of the washer. The head side should be dry.
Doug
 
Is it the passage in the block or the head? The cause of the issue in the block we had was core shift. It wasn’t cracked. The passage intersected a water jacket as the entire block core was off to one side. Drilled the passage oversize and sleeved it with a lock tighted tube. Not sure how close that passage is in a small block as the one we had was a big block. As a side note only lube the top of the washer. The head side should be dry.
Doug
Sorry. Is a SB LA. When I do a coolant pressure test, its leaking air from #4 cam journal to the rocker shaft in the head. Ive done everything outside of tearing it down and starting from scratch with dye, UV light and camera. Guess thats my next step. Ive never know these blocks to intersect aside for a hole in the block. And has to be big as when I was priming the system, in 5-7 mins I filled up the right coolant bank with oil so bad it poured out the water pump.
I was hoping there was a plug I messed. I just had this block honed for pistin fit too. Was a new short block from S & S in spokane 15 years ago, just didnt get around to doing it til now. So upgraded pistons, cam, heads etc. Now this...
 
ISo if you put your finger on the shaft pedestal you can feel air? If that head is removedten you can tell if the leak is in the block or head. If no crack is seen in the leaking part ( be it the head or bock). Then sleeve the hole with a piece of tube. One final thought. Is it possible the head bolts are bottoming out in the block?
Doug
 
Ya not bottoming out. Ran camera so all good there. Yes air in block with head removed as well...
 
dowels that hold head on the block might be too long or too thick and not going all the way in the block holding up the head. coolant could be leaking past the head gasket too if the head is sticking up.
 
Already did that one. They're weren't higher but we're. 006 +/- wider. Reamed the holes a bit in the heads as we're binding a bit. All good now.
And yes, gaskets we're wet. But .039 felpro 1008's and still measure only .044 + thick. Just not sealing well.
 
Have a machinist straight edge coming tomorrow. Mine is a cheap SS ruler. Maybe the deck is out? Heads are new and checked to be straight. Also I have a second set of heads that are new. Could try one on as well as problem is only wit pass side bank. Dr side was bone dry in coolant passage.
 
It's almost like I have the wrong gaskets or something too. Why would the gaskets be wet? Guess when pressure up the coolant, it blows back under the head...in all the years I've done head swaps never had this happen....
But I did replace cam bearings. Could I have damaged next to a water jacket?? Don't think so?
 
This is my take. First, on each side of the block deck, there is a passage from the cam to pass oil to the head rocker oiling passage. On either side of these oil holes, are coolant holes. My choice is oil going into one or both water holes, thus your transition point, but why? You already identified why, the head (or heads) are not being tightened properly, thus creating a leak path. So, look at your iron chunks, and look INTO the head bolt holes for a path to water. Mopar head bolt holes are blind and should not get to water. Not a deal breaker as the bolt seals the hole for the most part. The cause of the failure is likely the wrong bolt set from ARP for the aftermarket heads and they bottomed out, punching the holes into the water jacket. Or, the head hole boss is not the correct height (low), also punching the hole bottoms out. At this point, the block could be compromised, or maybe not. Studs might be a way out as you can ensure that the heads will compress the gasket properly. Use a tap to chase the bolt holes to the very bottom and blow them out well. Install the studs while paying attention to the stud shank (unthreaded portion) and it should be below the head hole boss. Install the washer dry as DVW said and apply ARP lube to the top of washer and stud threads. On a side note, put a SMALL amount of oil on the block threads so it will not hydraulic. I also scuff the bottom of the washers to roughen the surface to prevent spinning. A tip I picked up from ARP LS head stud kits. Once properly tightened, your gaskets should crush properly and seal the leaks.
 
This is my take. First, on each side of the block deck, there is a passage from the cam to pass oil to the head rocker oiling passage. On either side of these oil holes, are coolant holes. My choice is oil going into one or both water holes, thus your transition point, but why? You already identified why, the head (or heads) are not being tightened properly, thus creating a leak path. So, look at your iron chunks, and look INTO the head bolt holes for a path to water. Mopar head bolt holes are blind and should not get to water. Not a deal breaker as the bolt seals the hole for the most part. The cause of the failure is likely the wrong bolt set from ARP for the aftermarket heads and they bottomed out, punching the holes into the water jacket. Or, the head hole boss is not the correct height (low), also punching the hole bottoms out. At this point, the block could be compromised, or maybe not. Studs might be a way out as you can ensure that the heads will compress the gasket properly. Use a tap to chase the bolt holes to the very bottom and blow them out well. Install the studs while paying attention to the stud shank (unthreaded portion) and it should be below the head hole boss. Install the washer dry as DVW said and apply ARP lube to the top of washer and stud threads. On a side note, put a SMALL amount of oil on the block threads so it will not hydraulic. I also scuff the bottom of the washers to roughen the surface to prevent spinning. A tip I picked up from ARP LS head stud kits. Once properly tightened, your gaskets should crush properly and seal the leaks.
Thanks 69 for the chime.

I have ARP 144-3601 as per head manufacturer spec. At present they protrude approx 5/8" outside of the head. I measured the holes today and have at least 1"+ of depth, so not bottoming out that I can see. Also blew air in each with brake cleaner and no holes. But I did have oil in each bolt hole the first time around.

As for the compromise, yes it's only on the pass(right bank). Left bank water galley is dry. But as the 2nd attempt to seal these heads today didn't work, I removed pass side and again the gasket was weeping. And I only ran a straight air test from the waterpump no oil. So they stull aren't sealing as this time I should have gotten close to .039 thickness for measurement on the head gasket. It's still .044 +. So i dont think it's sealing still today.

Now to cam oil passages. That's what i wanted to know. #2 feeds dr side and #4 feeds pass side rockers. # 2 is fine. #4 is the problem. So I pulled the head this afternoon after and ran the same coolant pressure test but used a bunch of plugs on the coolant deck holes best I could. Still had air coming in from #4 journal. Has to be a compromise in the web. Air shouldnt be coming into the oil system there. Now I did change cam bearings as they were looking pretty rough for being new. I dont think i did any damage??
But on a 72 block, do I really want to spend more time or any money trying to repair it? I think S & S took a badly overly used engine and tried to make it work. I bought it, but that was a long time ago. Just took too long to upgrade it..lol

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So, when you removed the pick up tube and attempted to pressurize the oil galleys the oil pump blocked the air... As was stated previously pressurize through the sending unit port...
 
So, when you removed the pick up tube and attempted to pressurize the oil galleys the oil pump blocked the air... As was stated previously pressurize through the sending unit port...
Ohh..well as I had the pan off, I just did pressure going into the oil galleys from the bottom? I was getting air up top. Thats when I ran the camera into the right water bank looking for air bubbles with soap water and WD and I found no leaks there. Now that won't get me to the web, but everywhere else.
 
Bottom line is if I screwed up something, I can accept that. I just hate to burn a block for another if it's something stupid that I missed here.
 
Oil and water shouldn't meet unless a plug or something is missing. This was a short block and so short it had nothing. Not a crank bolt, dipstick tube, timing cover, intermediate shaft nothing. And for some reason today those items are commodities...lol
 
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